What do you think of Zillows program found here (bottom left of page):

http://www.zillow.com/postings/Postings.htm

Post properties even though you aren't the listing agent. What do you listing agents think of that?

I think that this is illegal. Since a home-owner would sign an exclusive right to market agreement, no other agency can market the property under their name.

This is not only a violation of Code of Ethics, it could land someone in court!

Our listing agreement provides for the sellers authorizations of:"... the property shall be submitted to one or more property information exchanges, seller authorizes the use of electronic and all other marketing methods."
With that statement I believe, any other agent can advertise the property. The MLS input sheet also has similar boxes to check for "ALL" electronic marketing methods, ie. Realtor.com, other companies websites, IDX etc.

I'll disagree with Pikes. I too think it's a violation. Be interesting to hear others perspectives...

i saw a loser do this on Craigslist. He listed 100 homes for sale with him as the contact. He has zero listings. I understand IDX and broker reprocity. This is not that. He should lose his license...or get out of the field.

The seller wants the property sold and his agent is getting help
in marketing the property.

Does not seem like that much of a crime to me.

Pikes, While your listing agreement may say that, I'm sure that it does not mean that I can go into Zillow and hijack your listings and the leads that come in from Zillow as a result.

While I agree that the owner is giving you permission to market the property in "all" electronic manners, I'm sure that means that YOU can market them to those electronic methods.

This is the best marketing gimmick ever conceived in the history of the industry. Zillow won't get in trouble because they are not a real estate company. They are a social networking site which creates discussion topics related to real estate. The feature says anybody can "tell" about a house for sale. It does not say list a house for sale. Tell, talk, discuss, not same as list. That means anybody can post a street address and start a discussion, make comments, contact the poster, etc..etc..

Zillow is not the party making the postings so they won't be getting in trouble. The "agent" that chooses to post is merely expressing his opinion on the property.

Conceivably, as more homes get posted on zillow, there could be millions of discussions related to past sales, current sales, pending sales, listed properties of a particular property.

"Gee Bob, what do you think about that house at 123 main street that sold for 500,000?"

Zillow makes it clear that they make their money on the advertising. Looking at their marketing, unzestly clean zestimates, and confusion created a site like zillow will actually make people want to use agents even more.

People will be overloaded with useless information that they'll need someone with expertise.

realting,
Nice catch on the wording and I can see how this could be easily manipulated. Imagine paying someone to enter the addresses of every home for sale in the area you work or would like to work.

Just a little canned statement such as "Nice 3bed/2bath brick ranch on .5 acre lot. Must see this property! I can show you this or any other property in the area."

Then everytime someone does a search for a specific property or inputs their home and looks at the zestimate comparibles up will pop your profile and the mini blog on the property!

Freedom of speech and freedom of information are at the heart of all this. My own "guesstimates" tell me that the Z is on to something big. This new product is even bigger and more powerful than their "zestimate" product. Who knows maybe eventually they will phase out the zestimate and go with 100% social networking.

Keep in mind about a month ago my-currency.com launched with emphasis on creating discussions on property values. They started the group valuation trend. Obviously the Z has to come up with a better product.



I think that might get you in trouble. But something like this might be okay...try..

"Can you believe they want $625,000 for this property?
Call me I can show you a better deal. This thing is way overpriced. You'd have to be fool to buy it."

Ditto on the mini blog pop up. The smart agent will know how to use zillow to their advantage. I've been telling all my agents that zillow is great news for the industry. 90% of the work we do today I dont care to continue so let zillow and all the dot com do it. 10% of the work we do earn me 100% of my income.

You can't automated skills. That's where we come in.

This new Z feature is nothing more than a collection of property value blogs.

It's clear many licensed agents and brokers don't understand the law of agency and the effect it has on listing contracts and implied sub-agency relationships.

IMHO, as soon as others get wind of this it will be snubbed out.

duplicate

What relationship? Zillow is saying ANYONE can POST and TALK about ANY property for sale. People talk about property values already. Zillow is putting the discussions online.

If it looks like Z is intruding into your comfort zone, they are. But they're not practicing agency. I wouldn't bet against the Z model, I'd start using them to your advantage.

Implied agency? That's interesting. How does implied agency come to play? Anybody can post.

You're not allowed to market another's listing without their permission, no matter what Zillow says you can or can't do.

That's an interesting thought but people aren't marketing houses. They are "discussing" house values and they are talking about properties for sale.

It's not different from you and I discussing different aspects of real estate marketing. Zillow wants people to talk about
houses and house values.

Earlier you said it's marketing, now you say it's not marketing.
Make up your mind, please.

realting...

"That's an interesting thought but people aren't marketing houses. They are "discussing" house values and they are talking about properties for sale."

do you really beleive that? that's not what's happening with the zillow situation. People can talk all they want about houses and house values... but that's not what they are proposing.

you need to revisit your agency and ethics classes.

I don't need to revisit nothing Bud. You need to refocus your business plan.

I know what Z is trying to do. I don't like it anymore than you do but time is changing. New companies are finding new ways to do things. This is not a new thing, as I've stated before my-currency.com started this a month ago. Weeks from now there'll be ten other sites doing house value discussions.

I'd say you have a bigger ethics and agency issue on your hand by promoting a "broker" status in states you might not be licensed in.

With your username BROKER, anybody that engages in a conversation with you can IMPLY that you are their broker.

Take that to your agency class.

I think that a few of you are missing a key component of what Zillow is doing...

Here is the text from the Zillow Site:

--------------------
Tell Us a Home's For Sale

* Anyone can do it!
* All you need is the address and asking price.
* A link to your profile and your photo — if you uploaded one — will appear each time.
* If you add photos to a home, a link to your profile will also appear with the photos.

Getting Started

To tell us a home is for sale, just enter an address in our search box, follow the link to that property, then click on the "Tell us it's for sale" icon near the address.
--------------------

Now go to this link:
http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=59175751

I have put my photo and information on this home and listed it as "for sale" where you can link to my profile, and contact me.

I don't claim that this is my listing, and the "listing agent" can "take over" the listing, and thereby take it away from me.

But as a licensed real estate agent, I've just violated my ethics by putting out there that the property is for sale when I have no right to market the property.

There is no way that you can say what I did to this home is "discussing" the homes value - I've put the home on the market without the permission of the owner!

By the way, this condo belongs to a friend of mine, and if anyone does want to offer him a million dollars as I've put in the for sale price, he'd be happy to move.

I'll remove the "for sale" data in a couple of days, but wanted to demonstrate how easy it would be for some agent to go in and enter "for sale" data for every home in the system, and thereby cultivate leads on property that isn't really for sale.

So, if I was to start a website SIMILAR to Zillow, would I be able to since I am a licensed agent? Or should I let someone else do it?

Where are the restrictions to "ALL OTHER marketing methods"? How do you think a seller would feel, if suddenly their property was featured in Architectural Digest or Wall Street Journal without their explicit permission? Would they be upset? I don't think so.
We need to change our way of thinking and allow the market to help us make as many people know about the property for sale as possible, we owe it to our seller and this is one way to do it.

Right now, an agent from another company is marketing my listing in a magazine, do I feel bad? No. Does the owner? No.
These are not exclusive pocket listings and should not be treated that way.

OMG LOL

I must have hit a nerve.

Maybe you will tell us the name of your company so we can visit your website and see how you are doing things.

"I'd say you have a bigger ethics and agency issue on your hand by promoting a "broker" status in states you might not be licensed in."

Huh? It's a username on a message board for agents..... please explain your basis and support for this comment.

Troy,
So tell us exactly where the ethics violation is and please be specific and post relevant passages of COE to support you contention that an agent posting a comment about a property that is not their listing would violate COE.

BTW what you have done by posting a property that is NOT for sale is wrong.

I'll ad that some might consider it an illegal act as an "interference with a contract" since we are talking about hijacking someones exclusive listing.

If the listing agent gives their permission... that's different... but doing it at will without their consent could be construed with interfering with thier contract.

Do homeowners want the most exposure for their property? yes.
But they assign the rights for marketing with an exclusive listing agreement.

Good discussion.

Paul,

The property is for sale - the owner is a friend of mine and he will accept a million dollars for it, as I've put on Zillow. Why is this wrong?

broker,
Some might also consider it as just another form of blogging and the purpose of blogging is to give you exposure.

"Interference with a contract"??? So exactly how has this caused any "Interference" to the listing agent? Are you taking something away from this agent? Are you causing this agent to not be compensated for the eventual sale of the property? The agent is out nothing because if he already has a Zillow profile then he would be posting the house as his listing. If he does not have a Zillow profile then he would not be getting these leads anyway. So the agent is out Nothing so I seriously doubt that you could get any judge or jury to buy the "Interference with a contract" argument.

I may have been mistaken but from the way you made it sound the property was Not actively on the market but the owner would take a million. So this is in fact a listing that is currently on the market? If so I do apologize.

Paul, you better erase the homes you "discussed" on Zillow or you're going to be in hot water. The Seller contracted their Agent to represent them and market the home, not you. You may not market it without their permission.

Paul,

Code of Ethics:

• Standard of Practice 16-19
Signs giving notice of property for sale, rent, lease, or exchange shall not be placed on property without consent of the seller/landlord. (Amended 1/93)

Accepting this standard as their own, REALTORS® pledge to observe its spirit in all of their activities whether conducted personally, through associates or others, or via technological means, and to conduct their business in accordance with the tenets set forth below. (Amended 1/07)

Since the code applies to physical and electronic means, if I don't have a written agreement with the owner, then I've put a for sale sign on the property without the owners consent.

Correct?

Correct.

Be careful about how you interpret my words. I never said that this was a listing that was on the market- I said the property is for sale - for a Million Dollars. I never claimed to have a listing on it.

Isn't almost any property "for sale" when you offer three times it's current value to the owner?

To clarify this example that I used, the real estate is not a listed property, it is not being actively marketed, but the owner will accept a million for it.

Paul,

Let me first ask you to agree that when an owner enters into an exclusive agency listing agreement that they are entering into a contract. Agreed?

Artiste,
I do not sell homes. I buy, sell and lease only commercial properties.

I have not discussed any homes on Zillow nor do I intend to but you have missed the point. What is being done is not illegal or unethical so there is no concern about being in hot water.

If I post an address that is currently in MLS and say that I think it is overpriced and there are at least 3 similiar properties currently on the market that are priced better that is not marketing that property. But anyone searching that address or comp on zillow will see my comment and maybe contact me to either discuss why I fell it is overpriced or to learn about the other 3 I mentioned. That is marketing for me by blogging my opinion and tying it to zillows property search.

Everyone keeps saying this is illegal and unethical but no one has yet posted any specific statute or COE that this blogging violates. You say it is a violation then prove your position with some documentation of specific and relevant COE passages or state laws. Too many agents on here just simply say "X" is a violation but cannot back up their opinion with facts. I like facts and believe in doing my research.

A listing agreement is definately a contract.

I do not agree that your contention that blogging about a property in anyway is interference with a contract. There are no damages and you have not harmed the listing agent in any way.

Sorry gonna have to leave it here for now as I have to go lease 15,000 sf of retail space.

Troy,
I got your meaning the first time around and was correct on my first statement as I suspected! Lets not play word games. Your intent was far different from what was being discussed as you are well aware!

blogging is not what I'm talking about..... if you are then we are on two different subjects.

Paul, I think it is you who is not on topic.

This conversation is NOT about a discussion or blogging about a property. I think that this discussion is about doing EXACTLY what I did. If I am off topic, I'm sure Broker will correct me.

It's about an agent who is not the listing agent putting their information on a home making it appear that they are the contact for that property.

I'm not playing word games, you are interpreting things incorrectly. Please do not read into what I mean when I say something.

This discussion is whether Zillow is creating an environment where an unscrupulous real estate agent could hijack every single home on Zillow and say that they are for sale, for the sole purpose of driving inquiries into that agent.

You will have to tell me how you misunderstood "The property is for sale - the owner is a friend of mine and he will accept a million dollars for it, as I've put on Zillow." and thought that the property is LISTED and currently on the market. I made no such statement, I merely said the property was for sale, for three times it's actual value.

Blogging about a property, or putting your opinion all over the internet regarding a property is a totally different matter.

"Telling" Zillow about a property for sale is not blogging - a web-log (blog, for short) is an online journal.

Next you're going to say that the MLS is a blog....

"This discussion is whether Zillow is creating an environment where an unscrupulous real estate agent could hijack every single home on Zillow and say that they are for sale, for the sole purpose of driving inquiries into that agent."
If it sells the property, so what? No harm, no foul, I've done my job. (unscrupulous? only if misrepresented, but we have a COE for that)

So Pikes.... when you take a listing... you are only charging the marketing side? Therefore your commission should not include a co-broke fee.

Or are you taking a listing and are willing to pay another agent if they bring in a buyer... but would prefer to have a buyer purchase it through you directly? And what if another agent is not a Realtor?

Are you looking at this from an agents perspective or a managing brokers perspective?

I offer a co-op in the MLS to any REALTOR who brings a buyer (regardless of where the agent saw the listing). Everything else is negotiable with the sellers permission. (it only happened once to me in over 16 years where the other agent/non-REALTOR's commission was reduced by 1/2%)
I'd prefer a buyer to purchase through me (for financial reasons), however, that is not very likely with 4,000 other agents out there working with buyers.
I'm a Broker Assoc., not managing at this time.

It only took us 13 years to teach people how to use the search engine. It'll take another 5 years to teach what blogging is.

Zillow is no different from going to google and typing a property address. It links to the property. You people need to get out of the dinosaur age thinking.

"You people need to get out of the dinosaur age thinking."
I think you need to learn some manners!

Realting:
We all get run over by technology, eventually. We are constantly looking at software(and hardware)in transition. The question is: Do the current models for selling houses suit the
the agency and the agent more than they suit the seller?

It seems quite obvious that the Real Estate Brokerage business is about to get run over and reformatted by today's technology.

So join the charge or become a dinosaur -- is that what you said?

I'll pick up a few books on the way home today.




To be brutally honest, I don't have the answer. But it's quite obvious there's a major disconnect between people and the interpretation of the same issue.

One side is discussing blogs and the other side is dabbling over agency. Both sides are clearly not discussing the same topic so it's quite obvious that one side will become dinosaurs.

One thing we do know for sure that is if you are hoping, praying, lobbying, and wishing for things to be the same using yesterday's translation in today's world, YOU WILL BE THE ONLY ONE LEFT STANDING IN THE OLD SCHOOL.

To understand where the real estate industry is headed ask yourself why isn't AT&T, MCI, QWEST, SBC, or PACBELL the leader in search engines?

Yahoo and google weren't even on the radar when yellow pages were invented. Yet, today's search engines are simply internet size yellow pages. But not just yellow pages, but interactive yellow pages.

That's the magnitude of the changes that are coming!



I can suit both.

Further, not only have the new yellow pages ( yahoo and google ) taken over, but they are slowly becoming full blown media and entertainment companies.

The digital divide between those that see what zillow is doing as agency violation and those that see it as blogs are worlds apart. YOU CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO EDUCATE. You'll have to pass them by with people that understand.

One side is using horses to cross the ocean, the other side is saying the plane is coming...the plane is coming. It's not even a close race.

"One side is using horses to cross the ocean, the other side is saying the plane is coming...the plane is coming. It's not even a close race."
As the French Concorde proved.
Not everything new is superior, but you must have lived awhile to know the difference.

In one of the classes I just took, the instructor talked about an agent who showed a couple 3 houses. He was working as a subagent. They asked him which one he thought they should buy. The agent said they are all nice houses, but the last one was in the best condition, had a nice yard and fit your needs the best. that is the one you should buy. Somehow the other two sellers got wind of what he said and he was brought up on like 7 charges and fined. Why? Because he was supposed to be working in the seller's best interest and had badmouthed 2 properties. So I don't think your scenario works very well.

Have you ever been on a plane?



Can you show me a link to this court case or is this another fairy tale spread over the web? Which sub-agency agreement did the agent sign to have two sellers take him to court? IT MUST BE TOUGH TO HAVE TWO SELLERS SUE THE GUY. I BET.

I like how you describe in details "somehow" the other two sellers got wind of what happened too. It must be the next generation of communication.

Troy,
I am aware what the topic is and that was reporting a property that is for sale to Zillow when you are not the listing agent. You posted the exact wording from Zillows website. In the agent profile you have two distinctly different options. One is to post your Listings and the other is to comment, post or blog on a property you know to be for sale that is not your listing.

Since you posted the comment on the property it lists your information should anyone wish to contact you regarding the property. In that comment box it says if this is your listing and wish to take it over to click here so whoever sees this knows full well that you are Not the listing agent of the property in addition it does not show in your listings section.

I am definately not a fan of Zillow but what they are doing is not illegal nor does it violate COE. If it did I am sure you would have posted the statute or COE section it violated.

Artiste,
It is technically blogging or a forum post if you like that wording better and it is simply tied to a search engine of Zillows property database.

Looks like another company like Zillow will be going directly to jail.

With the launch of YourStreet.com today, Zillow's got some new competition when it comes to owning the buzz around local real estate.

Both companies have slightly different approaches; with Zillow chasing real estate professionals to start the conversations, while YourStreet is targeting real estate enthusiasts to jump in the fray.

I'm sure more are coming!

I think with so many internet companies suddenly jumping on this bandwagon its highly likely they will likely end up with the same difficulties as FSBO's have in that the information is spread all over the place. No central place to go to find information, unless one of them can eventually dominate.

Ever notice how all these companies come out of SF or WA?

This is not a new concept but it's a better execution then I've seen yet. I know of at least 2 other sites in alpha stage that want to do the same thing (as part of their overall offering)

So now you have numerous sites with varying opinions and like attys... there will always be someone who tells you what you want to hear.

Paul, I did not post a comment on the property, I told Zillow that the property was FOR SALE, and listed a price. You are talking about a TOTALLY different part of Zillow than what I was trying to demonstrate.

I have removed the "this house is for sale" option from the listing, but if you looked at it while I had it up there, you would know what I was talking about. Should I post it again so you can see it?

realting said: "have you ever been on a plane?"
Not only do I know how to fly a plane, but last September flying into Heathrow was a nightmare, some of my valuables were stolen out of my checked baggage (I never check baggage, but because of UK restrictions I had to, I'm just glad no one PLANTED anything into my baggage), going from one terminal to another took 2 1/2 hours causing me to miss a connecting flight.
Since 1964, I have flown dozens of times to Europe since I have family living there and this has been the worst experience ever.
Now, you tell me the progress we have made in over 40 years in this sector and I'll tell you I'd rather go back 40 years when seats were more comfortable and you could be fairly sure of arriving on time. So much for progress.

The question should not be whether allowing non-listing agents to "say" a home is for sale on zillow is legal (probably is) or ethical (under the current Code, questionable) but whether it helps to sell homes.
Will community Q&A help sell homes? I think not.
The flagging mechanism should give a hint why.

1. Owners & LA unaware of the Q&A will not be able to flag false of misleading comments. It will be as poison in the well. Only interested parties have any incentive to flag.
2. Owners can flag truthful but damaging statements (this home has termites)---who will judge the flag?
3. for Owners who do not use the internet,it will be IMPOSSIBLE to flag anything on zillow
4. owners and LA (who did not "say" it was for sale on zillow)are burdened to police the Q&A. Would you depend on strangers to flag?
5. This Zmechanism forces owners and LA to "claim a home" in order to remove the non-listing agent who "said" it was for sale. Then they are in the question box.


(TIC) BTW, I heard of a new site called "Buy a Home from the Bathroom Stall" where non-listing agents say neighborhood homes are for sale. Q&A is limited to available space in the stall. Other venues for "saying" homes are for sale are planned for porn sites and films. A spokeman for the company said" we're only helping the owner get a buyer and many buyers go to the bathroom or look at porn. Why would owners complain?"

Troy,
Maybe you better and this time take a look at the page yourself. To the right it showed your picture and mini profile and it said in that box what I stated in the previous post. It said to either contact you for more details or if this is your listing and want to take the thread over to click here.

[quote=realting]

Obviously you never lived in a small town. I will look for something to back up the story. I don't know why you can't understand how an agent is a subagent for two sellers. Here on Long Island we have been the subagent for ALL the sellers as we just got buyers agency.

There's always a bad apple out of the the millions of plane passengers everyday. You just happen to be one. Would you have preferred horses instead?

You'll never understand what it is that you don't understand. I'm glad buyers agency is coming to your hometown. Maybe soon you'll learn that sub agency is not the default agency in other areas. Many parts of the country got rid of this almost 20 years ago. Welcome to year 2007.

It seems that Zillow has not taken hold in my back woods community of Evansville, IN. I posted one of my ten listings on Zillow and noticed that I was the only local Realtor taking advantage. There were also a total of five: 2 FSBO's and three others that were "Make Me Move". (maybe potential listings)

I guess it is getting more hits and if I were to add my other nine listings it would get me exposure, but would I also be opening the door to more competition. I am still not sure if being a pioneer will help or hurt. I am going to watch and see for a short while. With the limited amount of listings and the lack of Realtor interest would I also be smart or unwise to advertise in the upper right hand corner for .01 a hit and commit $100 bucks a month (10,000 hits) or would that open the flood gates and I get bought out by someone willing to pay $1.00 a hit. At that point I would rather do Google adwords.

I have also bought a FSBO site (www.EvansvilleHomesByOwner.com ) that I got sponsors to pay for and am trying to figure the best marketing idea to get participation from FSBO's and potential buyers.

Maybe Zillow will overrun these FSBO stealth sites including mine since posting on them is free.

What do you think Realthing?

"There's always a bad apple out of the the millions of plane passengers everyday. You just happen to be one. Would you have preferred horses instead?"
Yes! With wings. (but that was before your time)

Thank you. Now we can try to convince jaded New Yorkers/Long Islanders to sign an EBA with us.

I see what your problem is. Your world has horses on wings. I'm talking about the real world horses and real air planes. Granted, airplanes have their pros and cons but certainly future improvement to services through better training will improve. Slowly but surely the flying experience will improve.

Meanwhile you can wait for your horses on wings to come back.

Cool Cat, the only people really going to zillow are realtors. The majority of the traffic to that site is realtors. When you look at the number of realtors in the US it's not at all a suprise that Zillow is getting millions of hits a month.

I don't think Zillow will go anywhere but down.

But it's one thing to recognize what they are doing and taking advantage of the opportunities, it is another to be in complete denial of what's going on in this industry.

Somebody mentioned early that Zillow will become victims of the same thing that has caused fsbo sites to fail. Soon there will be too many places like fsbo for the content on zillow to be of any value.

For any product or service online to be of value there needs to be organization, Zillow won't have that. As we see already, my-currency.com and yourstreet.com are already on board. Epraisal.com and cyberhomes.com are also eyeing the same market as zillow.

Instead of doing something to beat Zillow why not use Zillow in your favor? I'm not banking on Zillow but I'm going to take advantage of them while I can.

I like Zillow features and technology. Soon every top producer will be offering the same stuff on thier site. Anybody that has ever tried to organize the internet ( google and yahoo excluded ) will fail. The internet is not a place to establish a standard and thats Zillow will fail.

My advice. Spend money promoting yourself. Forget about all the latest internet junk. But do take advantage of them.

Why would you want to spend millions of dollars on a project like zillow that will eventually fail when you can take advantage of them right now.

A lot of people here fail to see that Zillow is not a threat to the industry at all. They should be view as nothing more than a pilot program. Zillow is to the industry as a steering wheel is to your car. What is missing is you.

No need to invent a new steering wheel.

Paul, you're very good at stating the obvious, but missing the point.

Zillow has a link that says "Tell Us Its For Sale" and then asks for a price, and whether you are the owner, listing agent or someone else.

I'm not sure how you can say that by doing this I posted a "comment" on the property.

Further, you never responded to my post with the quote from the COE.

I did not post a comment on this property, I posted an electronic "for sale" sign when I am not the listing agent.

“Slowly but surely the flying experience will improve.”
Ahhh, youthful eternal optimism.
Here is another site that will value a property in competition to Zillow.
http://www.realestateabc.com/

I live on Long Island and apparently they didn't have anything in my town or township.

Perhaps this comes down to the conflict of interest between the agents best interests and the seller's best interests.

The listing agent has a fiduciary obligation to try and sell the home they are listing. If allowing other agents to talk about the listing and create "buzz" at the risk of their hijacking some potential buyers - (customers for their property as well as other properties) then how has this hurt the seller? Has it helped the helped the seller sell his property - probably. Has it siphoned off potential customers from the listing agents - possibly. What are the chances that the seller would feel betrayed if a listing agent restricted the use of the listing in a way that eliminated a potentially free source of publicity? Quite probable.

As long as the "buzz" created about the listing isn't negative, it is in the seller's best interest that they allow other agents to discuss the property. It's not unlike IDX links to the MLS where a brokerage is just as likely to get a call about another brokerage's listings as their own because a buyer found it on thier site.

Nevertheless, as an agent, I would feel uncomfortable about commenting on a listing if I hadn't consulted the listing agent.

Troy,
First so there is no confusion I will post the definition for comment.
com·ment(kmnt)
n.
1.
a. A written note intended as an explanation, illustration, or criticism of a passage in a book or other writing; an annotation.
b. A series of annotations or explanations.
2.
a. A statement of fact or opinion, especially a remark that expresses a personal reaction or attitude.
b. An implied conclusion or judgment: a novel that is a comment on contemporary lawlessness.
3. Talk; gossip: a divorce that caused much comment.
4. Computer Science A string of text in a program that does not function in the program itself but is used by the programmer to explain instructions.
5. Linguistics The part of a sentence that provides new information about the topic. Also called rheme.
v. com·ment·ed, com·ment·ing, com·ments
v.intr.
1. To make a comment; remark.
2. To serve as a judgmental commentary: "Her demise comments on [the Upper East Side's] entire way of life" Mark Muro.
v.tr.
To make comments on; annotate.


Now looking at (2a) everyone can see that a comment is a statement of fact or opinion. Stating a properties address and its for sale price qualifies as a comment since it is a statement of fact or opinion so I beleive we can put the comment question at its end.

Now who's playing word games?

Did you look up the definition of blog too, Paul? Cuz it's not a search engine like you say it is - least not in any dictionary I can find.

Blog is a web log. For you internet illiterates it's like a catalog of what's on the web. Very similar to the search engine as weblogs can be setup to be searchable. It's very similar to this discussion forum actually. It's searchable.

If you people are afraid that weblogs will ruin your business stay at home and don't use the web. Things are going to get rough on the internet because weblogs are just beginning.

A blog is not a catalog of whats on the web. It is one person's entries, similar to a diary, newspaper, magazine, etc.---the blog author creates the content and/or links to other blogs, websites, etc. The web is not being cataloged from a blog---it is being written about, selectively.

Weblogs are searchable but they are rudimentary, for the most part.

Are you high?

Sellsius, We are discussing Zillow and comparing Zillow to a catalog of blogs. These blogs are searchable by the street address. Neat huh?

Let me break it down for you. Zillow wants to offer searchable blogs of property values cataloged by the addresses.

Artiste, Yes I'm high. Now go share you wisdom elsewhere. Your incompetence is becoming contagious. If you can't see that Zillow is nothing more than a collection of property value blogs you have no place in business. Take your incompetence to the fast food lane.

Listen people. Read everything I wrote not just one or two sentences that match what you want to see.

^^high

Troy,

Just being precise since you did not know the definitions for comment. Sorry the facts failed to support your position. I rarely play word games.

Artiste,

Call it whatever makes you feel more secure but you should work on your reading comprehension because I never said it was a search engine. What I said was it was tied to a search engine. Zillow has simply added a new twist to blogging. You can tell then a house is for sale and make any additional comments on the property as well and then those comments are tied to their database so your comments will appear should someone search for that property or the avm picks it as a comp for the property they are searching. Just as when you post a comment in your blog it may come up should someone enter close wording in yahoo, google et.....


realting,
I agree that Zillow is no threat to our business. Their Zestimates are pathetically wrong in a hugh percentage of cases and that only serves to confuse people and in many cases reinforce the mistaken beliefs of many sellers that their properties are worth more than market reality. It seems that many sub-prime lenders and others are learning the hard way that AVM's may not be the best source for a home market value. This unfortunately will not stop people from going to their site. What needs to be done is their site data accuracy needs to be constantly questioned by those of us that know the reality. Would be nice to see the lenders and mortgage brokers joining in the questioning of their questionable data model.

Paul, Zillow's not a blog nor is posting anything on Zillow a blog, nor are the people posting on Zillow bloggers because they posted something on Zillow. Post the definition of blog if it supports your opinion - you can't - because you're wrong.

Paul,

I think that the facts (that you ignored) support my position very well.

I did not say "I think this house is worth a million dollars" which would be a statement of opinion.

I posted a sale price for the home. While this was a statement of fact, which according to your thorough analysis of the definition of "comment" is a comment. So you can feel good that you were able to correct me on that minor point.

However, I still contend that what I did was post a "for sale" sign on the property, electronically, and therefore violated the COE.

This small fact is the point which you chose to ignore while trying to set me straight on the hair-splitting definition of "comment"

People are redefining what blogs mean and what blogs do on a daily basis and here we have a mentally challenged individual demanding the real definition of a blog.

By the time you learn what blogs mean the functions will have changed. Next thing you know some people will be asking for the official meaning of a search engine.

That's about as ridiculous a statement as saying you are ILLEGALLY advertising yourself in all 50 states. Are you licensed in all 50 states?

Troy Richardson
Hoisington Realty, Inc.
Bennington, Vermont 05201
Bennington VT Real Estate

Why are you posting your signature where consumers from elsewhere can "assume" you are advertising?

If placing a comment on a blog is the same as placing a "for sale" sign to you then placing your signature is like sending postcards to consumers in every state.

Where are your disclaimers because the people reading this forum
could be already under contract with another agent in their state?

Wow. This is a very interesting conversation. I have a few different opinions about this situation.

I believe that Zillow is putting this whole idea on their site to advertise properties as a "for sale" database. Obviously there is no national MLS, so Zillow wants to come as close as possible to having as many listed properties on their site. They believe that this strategy will make them more popular on the internet and people will want to continue to use the site as a resource. Therefore, they will get better ratings for their advertisers.

I also believe that when an agent enters into an exclusive listing agreement with a seller, the agent has absolute sole marketing rights to that property. Some of you may not see Zillow as a property marketing site, but I do. They want to advertise as many properties as possible for their own benefit.

An agent advertising someone else's listing is unacceptable to some of us.

For example: Let's say I am the listing agent of a $20 million home. I would not want this property advertised by other agents with their contact info under it unless I were to give them my permission.

It may seem like it would be advantageous to your seller to have as many people as possible advertising their home, but this can also become very confusing to many buyers. They see a home advertised by 5 agents, how do they know who the actual listing agent is? I know it seems similar to IDX, but advertising for sole beneficial purposes for the advertiser needs permission from the listing agent.

What really gets me is that some of you actually believe that Zillow is doing this to "talk" about properties! They are doing it "advertise" these properties along with the person's contact info that put them on there. It is an advertising idea. Even iff people did comment on these properties on the Zillow site, how many of you would really want just anyone being able to comment on your listing? What if the comments were all negative? How would it make your listings look if people wrote negative comments about it to the general public? It would interfere with your marketing abilities and possibly turn away buyers from your property.

realting,

You couldn't be further off base. I said that what I did was a VIOLATION OF COE.

Can you show me where in the COE it says that I can't advertise worldwide if I want?

This conversation has gotten so far off track it's now ridiculous.

Go back and READ the quote from the COE that I posted to support my position that clicking the link on Zillow that says "Tell us it's for sale" and then posting a sale price is a violation of the COE.

Troy you can advertise anywhere you want. You can even commit a crime anywhere you want. But you are licensed in your state so thus shouldn't you be advertising only in your state?

This is not a COE issue this is about agency in your state and every other state in the union.



What if it is? So What? You don't want your sellers to know what the market really thinks about their property?

What if the comments were all positive? Would that make you feel more at peace?

If anything, Zillow to reveal how incompetent some of the agents are in this business. When people comment they will say both negative and postive things. Isn't that what do when they comment on things?

well... everyone has their own agenda.

realting must not be an agent or has some kind of buyer-side business model so that he wants to use others listings to draw in customers.

I personally think it's a violation, possibly illegal and certainly unethical to take someones listing and advertise it as your own (I'm not talking "blogging" which is different). You can use any terminology you'd like but advertising is advertising.

Here's some hypotheicals: What if the agent who has hijacked this listing and is promoting it turns out to be a child molestor or rapist? What if the property has a major price reduction and it is not shown -- thereby elminating potential buyers? What if there are errors created when posting the listing information? Who's going to track what's under contract and sold in a timely fashion?

Off-base indeed.

The listing agent does. Zillow doesn't list houses and they are not responsible for your listings. What is posted on the web stays on the web forever.



I am one of the top ten listing agents in my state.

Some of you are so lost and so behidn in time it's comical. There will be so many other sites like zillow coming down the pipelines that I'm actually afraid a lot of you will exit the business and bad mouth the industry.

There's mass exodus coming and if you don't understand the Zillow model I can pretty much guarantee you that you will be one of them. Unless you're happy doing one sale a year.

FEAR
DENIAL
ACCEPT
EXIT
BAD MOUTH


Many of you are in phase 2 right now.

"I am one of the top ten listing agents in my state."

sure you are.

You didn't address the other points.

The problem with all this "new way of thinking" is that the people who are doing the thinking don't think.

Ok, realting, pretend you're Paul and explain this to me reaaal slow...

How is this an agency issue?

How can you say that this is not a COE issue- I quoted the exact part of the COE that I violated.

Yes, I'm licensed in my state, but guess what - Vermont is such a nice place to live, that people from OTHER states want to move here - therefore I advertise everywhere. I don't get your point at all...

Step 6 - Post a photo

Oh I bet they're thinking alright. Remember broker, Zillow didn't start this discussion to get questions answered. I believe you have more questions than answers. Zillow is a mover and shaker and you're doing the shaking.

Troy, COE applies to realtors. We are discussion agency as it applies to licensed people in general.
btw, you proved my point. What you are doing with your advertising and what Zillow is doing with their blogs are no different.

Keep in mind that this is not about blogs. Blog was used as an example of what Zillow is doing. Zillow is merely attempting to create a discussion forum on houses for sale. If things go according to their plan everybody will be able to search by a street address and get the scoop on any house in the u.s.

"Zillow is a mover and shaker and you're doing the shaking."

you couldn't be more wrong.

So what's the name of your company?

Now that is typical post for you. You are great on the one liners but totally lack substance.
Try making a intellectual addition to a thread instead of cute one liner or a picture.

Give me your social security number first so I can verify that you are not some perv surfing the internet. I mean "what if" right?

Paul, the kid's still learn to talk. In a few months he'll be able to complete a sentence.

Why? I have an fiduciary obligation to my sellers to make sure that their listing is sold in the most timely manner possible, for the best price possible.

If I don't allow other agents to "present" the property either on their web site or in their advertising, then I am actually keeping eyeballs OFF the property because I want all the buyers to come through me. Who does this serve? The seller or ME? It's better for me to keep the listing all to myself. It is NOT in the best interests of the seller.

I ran into this issue once before. Some newcomers to real estate in my office wanted to advertise my listing in a local paper (Korean) and use their names as the contacts. I didn't want to do it because I thought they were stealing my listing. "Damn it!" I thought "I worked damn hard for that listing, why should a green newbie benefit from the months of legwork it took me to get that?" But I recognized that NOT letting them do it might prevent a whole new set of eyeballs from seeing the listing. I allowed them to do it. Was I happy about it? No. But it was the right thing to do for the listing and the seller. The objective is to sell the listing....not get buyers for yourself.

To the buyer IT DOESN'T MATTER who the listing agent is ...or at least it shouldn't. How is that relevent to selling the listing?

The one stipulation should be is that no one can bad mouth the property..

I think it's the old duck rule in reverse. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. You take a chicken and hang a sign on it that says duck. It's not a duck because it doesn't look like a duck, walk like a duck or quack like a duck.

Zillow came up with what's probably a brilliant marketing decision. Let's let agents advertise other agent's listings, and we'll call it a blog to make it fall within the ethical guidelines.

Troy,
You are still missing the fact of the situation. Based on the wording that Zillow has chosen an agent would not be in violation of law or ethics by commenting that 123 Easy St. in Easy, USA is for sale for $XXX,XXX. The only thing the agent is guilty of is taking advantage of a post that could potentially generate a potential buyer for a property in that area. If I were to post I would always make comment on how wrong Zillows Zestimate price is based on local market reality.

It all comes down to wording. If worded one way it may violate law or COE and when worded a different way it violates nothing!

What do you think Realthing?

With the limited amount of listings and the lack of local Realtor interest would I also be smart or unwise to advertise in the upper right hand corner for .01 a hit and commit $100 bucks a month (10,000 hits) or would that open the flood gates and I get bought out by someone willing to pay $1.00 a hit. At that point I would rather do Google adwords.

realting = jaber,
dejavu! (the old is new again, some posters here might remember)

i was thinking it was the guy who was promoting giving back a major portion of the buyers agent fee without doing the work. i forget his handle....

I thought a blog was like an internet diary.

A Question: If I wanted to, could I pay for an ad in the newspaper advertising a house for sale that was not my listing? Or, closer to the Zillow discussion, what if I just bought an ad that said "this house at 1 Oak Street is for sale, and it's overpriced, but I have some that are priced just right."

Can someone please show me where on Zillow they say that "Tell us it's for sale" is the equivalent of a BLOG entry.

I COMPLETELY understand the concept of the Q&A section, which is questions, answers and conversation.

Please tell me how my posting the sale price of a property is considered by Zillow to be a blog entry or comment.

Bstout, that's what I said earlier. A lot of the things in this world were considered "illegal" by late adopters but many eventually accept. Some people have an obtuse learning curve and others are much quicker.

Pikes peak and broker what are you two smoking?

Paceryder, great idea and that's what a smart agent should be doing. Instead of crying like babies take advantage of Zillow as a tool.



Yes the upper right receives the highest exposure. Track the rate of conversion on every piece of marketing. I'd pay up to 999 a hit if I can earn at least 1000.

A marketing decision is really an investment thus roi should be considered.

"Pikes peak and broker what are you two smoking?"
I quit over 2 years ago.
You remind me of someone on this board a few years ago who had some good and bad ideas, yours are mostly immature.
Once you learn to communicate effectively, you might end up in the top 10 of your state doing whatever, but not real estate.

I don't think realting is going to tell us who he/she is.

Everything will shake out and he/she will be long gone and onto the next new thing. Opportunists, after all, always do.

I can see your point realting that Zillow Q&A can be seen as similar to a blog. I was just clarifying your statement that a blog catalogs the net--it really doesn't. Also your statement that blogs are searchable--the search is rudimentary and not very useful.

You're an opportunist too. At a smaller scale. Everybody in real estate is an opportunist. Don't fool yourself.

Midol, hunny?

SiberianWinter,

You don't seem to understand what I was saying. I just believe that if another agent is going to advertise my listing, they better get my permission first. In this case of Zillow, I am sure the agents that are adding properties onto the site are not getting permission from the rightful listing agent first.

You say it is not in the seller's best interest to keep the property advertising to the actual listing agent only. I don't believe this to be fully true. What if I lower the price on my listing that some other agent decided to advertise and didn't lower the price on his advertisement? Could this possibly deter buyers from being interested in my listing? YES! So updating the listing information would be one of the largest problems.

About the whole commenting on property issue. Negative comments are not really fair for people to openly discuss on a specific property for sale, especially if the comment is coming from another agent. It is like they are interfering with the marketing and sale of the property. If we let just anyone make negative comments about property that they might not have even seen, then other viewers could automatically be turned off from the property just by reading the discussion. I just don't think it's right for a site to allow just anyone to comment on something that they have nothing to do with. If it were people that actually visited the property, it might be a different story with the comment section.

"About the whole commenting on property issue. Negative comments are not really fair for people to openly discuss on a specific property for sale, especially if the comment is coming from another agent."
Len, I don't think it is in anyones interest to run down a property. We are all trying to co-op and make a sale, might it be marketed through the MLS, Zillow, Newspaper or any other medium. If one of my buyers wants to see a property they saw advertised, why would I refuse or be negative about it? I'd contact the listing agent to obtain the details and press on.

Hi, it's David from Zillow.

Please try out this feature on Zillow -- there's quite a bit of confusion here about how it works. Reporting that a home is for sale differs from advertising a listing on Zillow. 5 minutes on Zillow.com would clear up that confusion for you -- just click the "tell us it's for sale" link on a house's detail page on Zillow and then compare the process for a listing agent to advertise their listing to the process for anyone else to report a home for sale.

Here's a house that's advertised for sale by the listing agent:
http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=49143474
Here's a house reported for sale by a (buyer's) agent:
http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=48753306

Obviously it's our preference to have the listing agent advertise the home on Zillow but there is no good business, legal or ethical reason not to encourage other agents to let buyers know that your client's listing is for sale. We allow any member of the Zillow community to answer the question; "is it for sale?" and this is exactly how the real estate business often works today -- buyers' agents are often responsible for telling buyers what homes are on the market.

Len -

It's a mistake to confuse this feature with "allowing other agents to advertise your listings" -- that's not what's happening on Zillow. See above.

oh david.... you and the folks at Zillow have alot to learn.

Here is a challenge to all those who feel that what Zillow is doing to be Illegal or Unethical.

Call your state boards legal hotline(it is a free call) and ask? Get their opinion and have them check it out and then we will see how many lawsuits are brought by the state boards. Then we can see what the courts have to say about the issue!

Actually this may be a great tool for investors. It will make it easy to find those FSBO's that set their price according to the ZEstimate and many times the ZEstimate will be way too low.

Zillow isn't fooling anyone. Every property listed on zillow is either much lower or much higher than the zestimates. This goes to show that the public doesn't have much faith in the Z valuation model.

If I were running Zillow I'd setup a department just to monitor and compare the Zestimates with the actual sale price. If the Zestimate is within 1-5% margin of the sale price, then the industry has some catching up to do.

Otherwise the Z model will be coming to an end soon.

I don't think the majority of people know what Zillow is or care what it is as most people going there are realtors.

I'm new here ... Junior Member (so if I mess this up please cut me a little slack). Yesterday I posted 27 of my listings onto zillow ... really basic listings: price, bedrooms, year built, square footage, and MLS #. On my profile page I have a link to my virtual tours. I have one visit so far to my profile, thus I don't think we have a great deal to worry about. ESF

David I am glad you weighed in. I haven't read every post on this thread however I did look at both of your links.

What on earth is the point of the second listing? The agent for the potential buyer of 16 Comstock posted this listing to notify who? for what purpose?

Where does Zillow eventually want this to lead because this is not restricted to agents. I as a neighbor could post on Zillow about my neighbor's listing and how they are moving because the house is haunted. I am certain that wouldn't be in the seller's disclosure or their best interest. Do you have a means to monitor the content being posted? Would you delete my posting?

I don't at all understand what that adds to the situation? A pending price of $3.9 mil vs a Zestimate of $1.7 mil? I am open minded so please help me understand this.

And please share with me how I can get Zillow to properly identify my house. When I search on my address a different house is identified with my stats. I have sent emails which have identified my homes' true location to no avail.

Thanks.