Thanks for the examples Sheldon - I am sure we are finally getting where you wanted the thread to go...

In a hot market like Edmonton where there are, in some cases multiple offers coming in it can be a juggling act - and I am sure there are some junior agents out there that have not handled themselves as well as they could have. But the multiple offer scenarios are very rare - especially here in Ontario at the moment, with the exception of some pockets probably.

I seem to remember seeing a condo example given on that Edmonton company's website where they said the private seller sold for more, again, examples can be shown on both sides of the argument.

The reality is much of the time the buyer sees the home and discusses price with the seller - a very candid conversation between two intelligent people. It doesn't need to be held in secret offices where paperwork get shuffled back and forth with a bunch of posturing. This is how it worked for me as I sold my home privately before buying my franchise.

I would not expect a report by the National Association of Realtors to report that private sellers were netting more money. Not surprising.

I have many cases where clients sold for more than what an agent had given a market value for. And I myself have only owned this franchise for less than a year. I also have examples of someone ending the contract with an agent, listing the next day with us for the same price and selling for only $5000.00 less than asking (in a soft market - not a hot one). Of course there are examples on both sides of the argument and in some of my cases, there is an argument that it pays to use an agent to buy the home as well. But bottom line is the buyers paid what they felt the home was worth and they are happy.

When the term client is synonymous with the word customer, as per the definition I used in this thread, I am not sure how anyone can say we do not have "clients". I just googled the word "client" with several large companies such as "Esso", "Westjet" and "Telus" and they all refer to their customers as clients and vice versa.

Maybe next month when you open an airline or gas refinery you will be able to use this argument….

But while you’re associating yourself with the real estate industry, the public will expect you to adopt the definitions as per that industries rules of standard practice. Otherwise it could very MISLEADING you’ve said you wouldn’t want to do that. The law is very clear, and you’d be liable for the remedies, fines and sanctions allowed for in the legislation. Of coarse you could always plead “ I Googled the word and Westjet said it was OK”


Staying On Topic ….. Point 1

So Your customers rely solely on other people who have no interest or liability to establish what their home is worth.

There’s no guarantee the others are telling the whole storey, or even the true story. And there’s no way for the home owner to verify.

The most reasonable route you suggested was to have an independent appraiser prepare a report …. It would be interesting to know the percentage of your customers that actually do that.

I would ask the question again … how can you be sure you’re establishing the right price if you’re basing it on hearsay, rumour ….. voodoo ??? It’s great to say “I’m confident I did OK, but if you can’t answer the question with facts and knowledge you’re just wishful thinking.

For the record …the real estate industry doesn’t keep a tight grip on the information, it’s legislated, until closing at which time it becomes a part of the public domain.

I think it is important for all of us realtors to make sure that we tell everyone that most FSBOs are sold by realtors.

Every time one of us sells a FSBO - talk to the seller and get an agreement to list for ONE DAY, then proceed as usual with a listed property that is sold. That way we will have proof that most FSBOs are in fact sold by realtors. After all, the sellers wind up paying the co-broke fee anyway.

I believe in the Ottawa area something like 85% are sold by realtors, most expire and a minimal percentage are sold by owners (the information I got at some point by the board).

What I have done in the past is print out the FSBOs then match them up with the MLS listings - another way to prove that FSBOs end up dealing with realtors either in the buying or selling end.

I had two clients in two different hot hot areas of the city who insisted on doing the FSBO thing (I sold them both properties as a buyer's agent). They both gave it a stab for a few weeks, and after a parade of nuts & nosy neighbours (and $ unqualified people) through their homes they decided it was a really silly way to try and sell their biggest asset. I gave them fair warning of the pitfalls, they thought they knew better and wanted to save money. Well, in the end they got professional service. Their lesson cost them an extra $600 in fees and some questionable people poking around their houses.

Another point for my local market. We have a lot of DND transfers here - as a rule they only deal with realtors. So far all of my DND clients love to receive auto notifications, virtual tours and lots of photos. I also preview homes for out of towners. Realtors provide great service!

What bothers me though is that long after a FSBO has listed witha Realtor their property still appears on the FSBO web site, etc. Dave from Property Guys claims that this is because it is up to the seller to remove it. That may be one thing. What I've found repeatedly is that once the property sells (through a Realtor offering a proper co-broke) is that the entry on the FSBO site seems to be updated to say that the home has sold with 0% commission which is not a matter of creative licence it is an outright lie.

I see the same thing you see Sheila, I see many homeowners try the DIY method and most eventually listing with a Realtor to actually get their home sold. I spent the entire summer chasing FSBO listings and got nowhere. Which is fine; people are certainly free to try to sell their house themselves. One couple had theirs listed on bytheowner.com. The scary thing was they had all their information on the ad; the address, home number, work numbers, cell numbers, etc. Talk about leaving yourself wide open.

I stated this previously.... if all I was interested in was making quick cash I would offer flat fee listings. Seller pays me $700 or $1000 and I list his home on MLS. I offer a $50 co-broke and then could care less if it sells. Why? Because I get paid up front. That seems to be the route a lot of these FSBO sites go. Take the cash and dash. Personally, I won't do it but that's just me. I've seen a few big franchise Realtors offering this model in Mississauga. At least they make it clear on their web site that they don't handle offers, etc. for you unless you convert to a full service contract with them.

With all these new FSBO and DIY sites whining about how they should get access to MLS I can see a day soon where they likely will get access. And that's the day things will go to hell in a handcart. They whine about how MLS should be open to everyone. No, it shouldn't. The day that happens is the day that any remaining shred of usability will vanish. Realtors anre the ones who are paying for the care and feeding of MLS currently. In return we get access to a system that has some integrity because there are strict and enforceable rules about what content is and is not allowed on the system. As soon as every Joe Blow gets access to the system it will deteriorate into a mere shadow of what it is now.

My answer is this. Want access to MLS? Become a Realtor. Easy, no? Do you whine to the LSUC because you don't have access to the same information systems that lawyers and judges have? I guess they should throw those wide open as well so that it's "fair" for everyone. I don't mind paying for MLS access. Someone has to care for and police the system otherwise it benefits no one. Just because a certain segment of the population doesn't have access to something doesn't mean the situation is unfair. Should the public have access to police databases? Absolutely not. Same thing with MLS.

Outsider who feel they should have access to MLS to make it fair for all should also agree to be bound by the same rules we have to abide by with respect to advertising and dealing with members of the public. But they don't want that now, do they? They want to have their cake and eat it too. I've had it up to here with everyone and his brother complaining that their rights are being violated because they don't have the same things someone else has. Get over it already. Want MLS access? Become a licenced Realtor and pay your board fees. That what the rest of us do.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sick to death of people and their incessant whining about life not being fair and how they're all so hard done by. Life's not fair. Deal with it and get on with your life. Or at least quit *****ing about it.

Jerry

I applaud the property guy for finding a "niche" market to assist sellers. The danger is IF they cross the line and dispense " perceived " advice or council and get involved in a lawsuit .. where they never intended to be......

Ok, I will bite. Do you mean get rid of MLS and move to a co-op wich would be members only wich would consist of lets say for ex. remax, lepage, c21, coldwell and maybe homelife or keller. A private data agreement that is only shared by certain companies. Interesting. If this is kinda of your point then rumour has it there maybe a "dark paper" or two floating around in some international offices out there looking into that. Sounds like the law society. Private member co-op....hhhmmmm. * this of course is a work of fiction and any references made here are strictly for the point of example, no above mentiond organization in whole or in part in any way has any knowledge of said example.*

Our MLS systems...

interesting thread. I personally love the FSBO sites. They add credibility to our profession and provide us with quality leads. There's nothing quite like it when you visit the first open house held by a FSBO. They look at you like a leech and give you the old "Oh no, I don't need an agent" speech with a hint of laughter in it. Then you visit them a month later and their tune changes. It takes them a while to realize that all those "stats" on a FSBO website cannot be confirmed and are in fact there to promote more suckers, sorry, I mean "clients" to sign up. They also advertise clicks and not unique visits which is also deceiving. It's amazing how many homeowners are still convinced that an open house and a lawn sign is all you need to sell a house! That's what the FSBO sites are relying on.
There's a few sites out their that I'm convinced are owned by Realtors. When the home doesn't sell, they conveniently refer you to the realtors on their list.
The part that gets me is the ads I see for these type of sites trying to sell franchises. They make it look so easy. "All you do is buy a franchise, visit homeowners and save them thousands of dollars - it's that easy!" Ya okay... let's kiss goodbye that severance package you received when you got laid off from Nortel!

Thanks,
Cliff

Love this...Yesterday one of the local marketing companies annouced only 10% of their properties were selling. A number of those were no doubt agent assisted but the amount of commission saved is based on a no trackable sales reporting system. Nice. I want one of those systems...Hey mr regulator guys...wake up and protect the public, that's what you do right...oh [censored]...i am one of those regulator guys...forget it...buereaucrats run everything.