I am not a real estate professional. I recently sold my house, and bought another, both using Realtors.

While my home was on the market, a different agent advertised a listing in my neighborhood. He sent postcards to the neighborhood advertising "New Listing", he has directional signs miles aways pointing to this house, and his website states it is a new listing. He has yard signs at this house. It is not in MLS.

This particular agent previewed my home when it was on the market, and he rubbed me the wrong way when we met. He told me my house was overpriced by $100K (it wasn't... it sold in 2 weeks at 98% list). But, he got my attention, so I started watching what he was doing in my neighborhood.

It turns out his "listing" is actually his own home. He has a second listing like this, too, owned by someone with the same last name. (Parents, sibling?) He is obviously using these false listings to generate leads.

Is this ethical? He currently has no real listings, so I can say it does not appear to be very effective.

One can have a listing and not have it in the MLS. It depends on the type of listing agreement signed.

Sounds like bait and switch advertising to me.

I have to agree with KT. I know a few agents who have sold without listing on MLS. In most cases, They have to share with their broker to sell their own home if listed on MLS plus pay another agent. Not a bad deal but since he is educated in the business he may as well try on his own. If he is sending advertising but will not accept a legitamite offer on the home I would report him.

Sounds like an awful lot of effort just for a phony listing. Only time will tell.

If an agent is selling his own house, it has to be disclosed that it is agent-owned. Otherwise, how do you know the house isn't for sale? Most of the time anything is for sale for the right price.It would be hard to prove that it is a false listing.

I dare say that a good number of Realtors sell their own homes, and, many sell their own homes often. When your in the biz, it's just a natural thing to do.

But hey, if he thought yours was a 100k over, maybe you should look at his. It might be a steal.

Maybe he was trying to buy mine.

I'm betting it's a bait and switch. I just sent him an e-mail asking about the house. We'll see what he says.

If it really is for sale, he's doing a really bad job marketing it. There is no info available (no number of sqft, no interior pictures, nada) on his web page or in a brochure box.

Whether it's his own home, or it belongs to someone else, whatever. Some sellers don't want certain things...signs, MLS, internet ads, open houses and so on. As long as the agent is following the rules and laws of your state, he has to abide by the seller's wishes.

macd,

Just an observation here but as you are not in the market for a home and are not in the real estate business what concern is it of yours other than the fact you dislike this agent cause he commented your house was overpriced?

It appears that you have way too much time on your hands and nothing better to do than keep an eye on the activities of this agent that rubbed you the wrong way.

As the others have pointed out to you the listing does not have to be in MLS to be valid. The fact that it is the agents own home and that of a possible relative is not relevant.

Just because the agent does not have listings is not an indication of how well he or she does as there are many agents that build their practices around buyers.

Here is the best advice for you. Get on with your life and find a new hobby!

Funny but, I suspect that in a different situation most agents would tell a consumer they were nuts if they didn't list there home in the MLS yet no one finds it at all suspicious that the two properties this agent is selling are not listed.

I will bet anyone five dollars that this guy has signs in front of his house and a family members in order to generate sign calls.

In answer to the original question, no I don't think this is ethical behavior. At the very best it is hypocritical.

Oh...and... Paul, I think it is funny that someone with 1524 posts in less than two years is telling someone else to "Get on with your life and find a new hobby". I think your arguments would be slightly more effective if you would refrain from verbally attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you. Just my $.02

Gee Freak,
Just callin it like it is! I cannot comment about it being suspicious and neither can you as you do not know the full circumstances. The poster admits that the agent rubbed her the wrong way because the agent commented on her house was overpriced. This is someone with an imaginary axe to grind. So other than telling the truth what was the problem. The poster did not disagree with me so your point on attacking for disagreement is just so much babble.

I post alot cause I do alot of my work from the office. It is called multi-tasking so if you wanna talk some more trash feel free to send me a private message.

My goal in posting here was not to grind an axe (or to start a flame war). I was hoping to start a discussion on Realtor ethics. I have no intention of stalking this agent or reporting him to the "sign police".

In the last month I hired two Realtors, sold a house, bought a house, and dealt with two house inspections and repair requests. So, real estate is top of mind for me right now. My activities generated $60,000 in Realtor fees. I find it very interesting what agents do to market and sell themselves to get a piece of that action.

I have enjoyed reading the posts on these forums. They have provided me a rare peek behind the curtain to see how the machine works.

But, point well taken Paul, I do tend to obsess sometimes. After my closings in a few weeks, I will likely disappear to another corner of the Internet.

Can anyone recommend a forum where I learn about interstate moving companies? :-)

macd,
Learning is always a worthwhile pursuit.
Try http://www.movingscam.com/
This wil provide you with alot of information on interstate movers and may contain some forum information. Best of luck with your closing and your upcoming move.

An exclusive agency listing does not have to be in the MLS, however, the written listing agreement has to be on file with our board.

For discussion, let's make this a hypothetical ethical question (since this is the Ethics and Industry Practices Board.)

Is it ethical to post a sign in your own front yard and advertise it as a "New Listing!" just to generate leads when you do not intend to sell? Would you do it?

No, it is not ethical, it is an indication of desperation. It is also known, as mentioned earlier, as bait and switch. I believe it is a DTPA violation and as such a felony.

No.
I think I would lose credibility, as a realtor/owner with my neighbors after the house has not "sold" in a few months. Who needs that?
That has to be one of the lamest marketing ploys I've ever seen, there are much better ones for agents who don’t have listings, but actually have a house they can sell. (ie. Builders specs, etc.)

It would be unethical but not illegal as there is no way to prove the intent not to sell the property. I believe this would be a stupid way to get buyer leads and do not believe an agent would do this as their broker would have problems with such behavior.
I will play devils advocate for Tucker on this to show why it would be impossible to prove. If an agent were to do this with their own home they would set the price high enough that they would indeed sell with a full price offer and would accept with the contingency that they find a suitable replacement property.

There are more effective ways to get leads than a fake or over-priced listing.

Since there was some interest in the story here, I thought I'd post an update. By e-mail, I asked the agent if I could arange a viewing of the home in question.

He said: sorry, the property is not ready for showings, but there are these two other properties....

Write him back and tell him that you appreciate his offer but you really want to see the property you asked about. Ask him when it will be ready for showings and tell him that you'll wait. Then, email him every other day asking if the owner is ready to show it yet?

I have seen agents doing this too with hud homes.A sign with ther ename on it saying this home must be sold to get leads.This is fine at the front of the subdivision and is allowed by hud but no signs are too be placed directly on the property which i see these agents constantly do.

Pretty soon there butts will get caught and it won't be pretty.

Try a couple more times. Then call this agents broker and let them know the property has a sign but each time you call to get a showing you are told it is not ready for showing.

There are two different real estate offices in my area that do not belong to the local organization of REALTORS and do not participate in the MLS. I see their signs but their properties are not listed in the MLS.

Foolish? I think so. But then again, it obviously works for them (one office has been in business for over 25 years).

Just because it's not on the MLS doesn't mean anything. Perhaps this guy doesn't want to pay commission to another REALTOR for selling it; he probably just wants to sell it himself.

Okay, well I posted that before reading the update.

But I still maintain that not being on the mls doesn't = fake.

Another update:
A neighbor told me he puts the sign up every spring and takes it down every fall.

Tell his broker about the "Not for Sale Sign" and be done with it. His broker should take appropriate action.

This is an unfortunate tactic that has been used for years by less than ethical agents. As said by others I would report this practice to the broker and hope that ends it. This should just reassure the people out there doing things the right way will keep you in the game for the long haul. A person like that cannot get much of a following yet they can make your honest efforts look even more impressive.

The above situation sounds fishy. But the fact is that in some situations, it might make sense for an agent to sell their home as a non-MLS FSBO.


I am an agent. I just sold my own home. I listed it in the MLS, I signed a listing agreement with my Broker.

I had two agents bring uninterested buyers. The rest of my lookers came from my yard sign and open houses - two marketing methods that I could have done on my own, without listing with my broker.

After just two weeks, I have a buyer. He came from an open house. Done and done.

However, now I have to pay my broker a commision. And for what? I also have to pay myself (the selling agent) a commision...and then pay taxes on it. Thank goodness I do not have to pay another agents commision.


If I knew what I know now, I would not have listed it in the MLS or with my broker.

Live and learn.

It sounds like you really stick up for your industry. :rolleyes:

I think that some of you guys need to get your heads out of the clouds, and be honest with yourselves about this type of marketing. How many of you have left a For Sale sign (perhaps with the 'SOLD' sticker on it), for a while (as long as the new buyer will allow it); I gaurantee that you don't have "take your sign down" the same day of your closings, especially those that were listed and purchased through your office.

Putting a "For Sale" sign for a property isn't actually "For Sale," isn't legal or ethical. I am not a lawyer (obviously), but I am assuming that if you were willing and able to purchase the home regardless of the price, and the seller refuses, there may be a case there). I don't know why he doesn't just send out "Just listed or Just sold" info, it would cut out all of the theatrics of the For Sale sign and the time required to come up with ridiculous excuses.

I agree with what you said about many agents leavinga sign up a little longer to collect some leads. I am pretty sure most agents are guilty of trying something. You also stated that if there came a buyer that was ready, willing, and able to purchase the home that there would be some sort of case there. Why? The seller is never forced to sell their home as long as they don't agree with the terms of the offer. If you think about it, the seller can disagree with any possible offer's terms that came in. So there would be no issue there.