Any student of history knows that "The Way" things are done and accepted is not always the ethically or morally correct way. Many a great figure in history like Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Gandhi and Susan B. Anthony knew that the status quo was wrong.

In business the line between right and wrong might fall in or out of legal boundaries and is often blurred. Look at Sam Walton, some would say he brought good quality, inexpensive consumer goods to the masses. Others will point out how he single handily destroyed Main Street USA along with countless American manufacturing jobs.

So when you post here "that's just the way it is done" and "well, it's legal" won't fly. Conversation here should be geared to changing or defending real estate industry accepted practises.

Excellent points. However, acceptable practices can vary from region to region.
Maybe we can replace those acceptable practices with the golden rule when dealing on a broader scale?

How about some plain old common sense? I was posting on another topic earlier, and I was bereated for my choices, and opinions. Noted professionals acting like small children. Very sad indeed.

Agree 100%

This is real estate we're talking here. I've seen unfair practices occur. Some do anything for a sale. You gotta move fast for some clients. The easier the better, with a no hassle approach. That's the desperation of the business. Even I have compromised the ethics for a quick sale once or twice...

I have found the Slimy Ones sink to the bottom!!

Unfortunatley it seems when someone steals from you using unethical tactics it comes at the worst times. Remember lead by example;I have stayed true to my commitment of ethics and believe me where I live the compition is frightening. Once you get a reputation in this business others know and pretty soon we all just steer clear of anything the unethical agent may offer. Becareful not Slandeer or Bad mouth we just know who they are. We talk about them at mixers. HA HA Losers

I don't think its right, as a professional, to act unethically. It's your obligation to represent the industry. I think a lot of the foreclosures recently are the bi-product of several unethical decisions.

Agreed, we want to change things in the real estate business. However, then it becomes important that we should be able to precisely explain what are the things that are to be changed in the real estate? So everyone please suggest what all should be curbed out of real estate?.

There are times when representing a client that you have to cross the line of feelings and business. As long as I don't break the laws or violate ethics.

Example: I represent a buyer. The Listing agent can't keep her mouth shut, tells me his client needs to sell NOW. I'm going to share that info with my client, it is my duty. So I present lowball offer, I know my client is willing and able to pay more, but I serve my client.

I have represented people that were complete A-holes. I was to deep into the transaction to fire them as clients, did not care if the deal fell apart, but I wanted to see it close. At the end of the day, I felt like we raped the seller, the buyer was a total pri%%, and if he never calls me again, thats fine (as I will not talk to him anyways, and I hope to see him on my forclosure list). But, I still cashed my check, and spent it. Its business.

I do not get paid to be an activest. I offer MY OPINION, MY ADVICE. If I wanted to change the world I would find a new career that paid me to do so. The purpose of this forum and others is a chance for agents across the country/world, to network, offer advice, and have a bit of fun in the process.

I play fair and honest until the other side doesn't. If they want to play the game in an unfair manner then I can play by their rules too.

My clients come first and I will not let someone else's lack of character affect my client's outcome.

so, are we appealing to legal principles, such as those outlined in the US Constitution (the basis for our legal system)....or some other ethical or moral standard? ultimately, who determines what is acceptable?

are you suggesting that the majority should always prevail? please note that the US Constitution GUARANTEES the rights of the MINORITY.

well, if you are going to discuss the "right way" vs the "legal way" or "our way"... you have to look to the NAR Code of Ethics and how that translates into protectionism for this industry and how it stifles competition.

Broker, I agree completely. and it is important to note that most agent DO NOT have a choice concerning NAR membership. per Association rules, if the employing broker is a member, ALL agents under the broker's license MUST also be members. that is not a competitive environment.

another rule some of the local MLS/boards are implementing is that all broker listings must have a Supra electronic lockbox, if a lockbox is placed on the property. A combo box alone cannot be put on the property unless it is used in conjunction with a Supra box.

this effectively forces the agents to buy GE Supra lockboxes, if they previously did not use them. it also forces the agents to purchase the annual eKey subscription, paid to the local Board/MLS.

this is a ridiculous requirement, and should be of no concern to the local Board. The broker/agent is responsible for the management of the property. It is the broker/agent's and client's decision to determine which type of lockbox is appropriate. Any benefit accrues strictly to the local Board and GE, their exclusive vendor.

this is yet another example of the intrusive and monopolistic demands of the existing NAR/board/MLS membership.

If broker/agents (independent businesses) don't have a problem with that, they are NOT in control of their industry.

Nar and the state associations do not impose any lock box requirements. Even if the local board wants lock boxes on a property the property owner can refuse.

One of my MLSs used to have a circular key mechanical lock box system; they discontinued it and have not replaced it.

My other MLS is no longer board owned and they encourage but do not require the use of electronic lock boxes.

I use personally owned mechanical ones only, set to the codes as required by my listing clients.

"Nar and the state associations do not impose any lock box requirements. Even if the local board wants lock boxes on a property the property owner can refuse."

I know of at least one local board that is now REQUIRING GE electronic Supra boxes (only choice) on all MLS-listed properties that have a lockbox. This means if the agent currently has a combo box on the property, they will need to purchase an electronic Supra box and put it on the property also. If agents don't comply, they will receive a "citation". what comes after the citation I don't know.

Perhaps that board can dictate the use of the Supra lock box but I'm confident it is still subject to the property owner's permission to have any lock box.

Lockboxes Locally a lockbox is not mandatory, but some years ago when it was announced that the electronic lockbox would soon be available, I made a telephone call to the national distributor and was told, to my surprised, that the local board had purchased quite a few of their lockboxes with the intention of selling them at a profit to their members and to subsequently follow up with subscriptions fees from their members.

Subsequently, the Board was promoting these new lockboxes and offering a credit to the members who turned in their current lockboxes, but never did they mention anything about the forthcoming subscription fees.

Basically, this credit was an effort to remove all the current lockboxes from the local market, with the only alternative being the new electronic ones.

The older and wiser brokers retained their older combination lockboxes and have never regretted doing so.

Important Notice: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a lawyer. There is NO epresentation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information .

^^^

yes, a manipulative tactic characteristic of the existing Board/MLS systems.

the bottom line is...the local board has no business telling local brokers and agents what lockbox they should use, while forcing them to pay more for eKey subscription fees.

that decision is a matter strictly between the broker and the client.

Amen. Revolt against the machine.

It is at the sellers option to use a lockbox or not, any type.
Obviously you don't care about the additional security features that the Supra boxes provide for your clients.

Are you saying combo boxes are not as safe as Supra boxes? Shouldn't a broker/agent have the choice to which they use?

Yes.
and
Yes. Brokers should have the choice of lock boxes, to NOT provide the best and safest method available if they so desire. (until they get sued by the seller or are not covered under their E&O for not providing the most secure method available)

http://www.srcar.org/supra_faq.asp

http://tinyurl.com/gymf5

this is a ridiculous requirement, and should be of no concern to the local Board. The broker/agent is responsible for the management of the property. It is the broker/agent's and client's decision to determine which type of lockbox is appropriate. Any benefit accrues strictly to the local Board and GE, their exclusive vendor.

Shana

This requirement from the Board of Realtors in Las Vegas stems from the reality that a lot of agents give the MLS printouts to their buyers and if there is a combo lock box the buyer will have easy access to the house. This does not satisfy the requirement to ensure that only Realtors have access to the house.

That is a BS reason! I use many combo lock boxes but never publish the code in MLS, showing instructions are for the agent to contact me for the lock box code.

^^

exactly. lockbox codes must be put in the "agent only comments" field of the listing, which is not visible in a client printout. MLS members are required to distribute ONLY the client printouts to clients.

for REO brokers, electronic lockboxes are usually an unnecessary expense.

If the bank or client doesn't require them, then yes, the broker will use his discretion. the point is, this is the broker's decision. the local Board committee should not be making those business decisions for the broker. It's not the purpose for the Board's existence.

Do you have a link to your boards policy manual showing the required use of the SUPRA lockbox?
I can't believe it's in there.

Here is a link to ours.

http://www.pikespeakrsc.com/PPMLSRULES.pdf

i so agree with you. my board is fining people $500 for having combo boxes on properties without a supra. i asked the board what if the owner has a combo box on the property and they said it doesn't matter. my board also fines $500 if there is a minor error in a mls listing. i really feel the board is our enemy even though our dues pays their way.

Locally: Lock-boxes

When the Supra Lock-boxes first came out, I telephoned the corporate office to perhaps purchase a number of their lock-boxes only to learn that they could not sell direct to me as their manager had just entered a exclusive wholesale agreement with the (local) real estate board, who in turn planned to retail them to their members.

In other words, in their promotion of lock-boxes the board had a profit motive.

An agent liability for the seller’s property is generally in the area of "gross negligence" on the part of the agent and difficult to prove, the agents defence is that they made a “reasonable” effort to safe-guard their seller’s property.

A combination lock-box authorized by the seller would be a reasonable in the eyes of the court.

Further, an agent would not be held liable, where it could be shown forceable entry of the premises occurred by persons unknown.


Important Notice:This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a lawyer. There is NO representation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information .

Yes, but how many agents do NOT print the customer version of the MLS report but the agent report with the combination? I thinks its irresponsible of any agent or broker to include the combo in MLS regardless of a vacant REO or an individual owner in a private treaty offering...just my 2 cent opinion.

PS
Our local board sells (leases actually if you read the agreement) the supra GE boxes at about $100 a pop but decided I would put the MLS boxes on all my REO listings for several reasons:

1) I know who and how many showed the asset at the time the agent/broker popped the lock.
2) I can get the number of showings (ifthe box was used) on the screen for those pesky MMRs now going to bi-monthly in frequency.
3) I can ususally track down by elimination of calling the showing agants/brokers the approx time and day a detrimental incident occured or had not occured...such as who might have turned the thermostat on the AC way down after the wekkly inspections.

BTW on those monthly utility bills on my REO assets where I can leave the AC operable, 85 to 90 degrees setting, I got a handle on the thermostat by going to depot or lowes and buying those lockable thermostat
covers. I rarely NOT put them because of the reoccuring incidents of the circuit breaker being turned back for the AC, the setting left at 60 to test it by showing coop agents. It only took one of those accompanying monthly house payments of an electric bill to make me reuse them, and leaving four extra holes in the wall for the next owner doesn't hurt my wallet one bit.

Lets all talk "real" for a minute here because I've never heard such a load of Horse.... in my life! Your talking to realtors here guy (not customers), so snap out of your ethical trance and wake up!

We all have to obey laws and ethics rules (were well aware of this), but don't try and sit their and tell me its real... we sling BS each day to make a living and we all know it, i will list a few examples here in an effort to "snap" some of you out of this stupor your in to give us at least one place we can be ourselves and speak truth!

#1 How many of you have tried to run to a seller to get YOUR offer accepted and signed fast (knowing you DON'T want other higher offers to come before yours is executed) << that's not adhering to your fiduciary responsibility and we all know it!

#2 How many times have you tried to get a buyer to sign an exclusive buyer agency contract? common folks.... we all all know the soul reason for this contract is protect our asses and "lock that buyer up to us forEBA!" Mahahaha

#3 How many people have attempted to send a mailing to a home which is currently listed (you being fully aware that's its a listed house), or how many have talked to friends of friends who know of others who have their home listed and you slip in the convo "Ohh, well you should have the seller call me" or some crap like that (These are direct conflicts of our code of ethics)....and they happen every day!!!

Lets be totally honest and real here, we can all give 100 other examples of "REAL WORLD" vs. "WHAT WE ALL SAY WE DO"... I want a forum to be the one place i CAN vent! I CAN speak openly and honestly! I CAN be real about what happens, experiences, suggestions, etc. without some mod coming in here and acting like a freeeeeking real estate board.... THIS IS THE ONE PLACE I WANT A LITTLE TIME TO BE REAL!

Now on another note.... Happy V day everyone<333

if you are a "real" who thinks what i say is the real "TRUTH" then thank me.

Please note that you're responding to comments that are over six (6) years old in a thread that's been completely idle for a year and a half !