Any student of history knows that "The Way" things are done and accepted is not always the ethically or morally correct way. Many a great figure in history like Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Gandhi and Susan B. Anthony knew that the status quo was wrong.

In business the line between right and wrong might fall in or out of legal boundaries and is often blurred. Look at Sam Walton, some would say he brought good quality, inexpensive consumer goods to the masses. Others will point out how he single handily destroyed Main Street USA along with countless American manufacturing jobs.

So when you post here "that's just the way it is done" and "well, it's legal" won't fly. Conversation here should be geared to changing or defending real estate industry accepted practises.

Excellent points. However, acceptable practices can vary from region to region.
Maybe we can replace those acceptable practices with the golden rule when dealing on a broader scale?

How about some plain old common sense? I was posting on another topic earlier, and I was bereated for my choices, and opinions. Noted professionals acting like small children. Very sad indeed.

Agree 100%

This is real estate we're talking here. I've seen unfair practices occur. Some do anything for a sale. You gotta move fast for some clients. The easier the better, with a no hassle approach. That's the desperation of the business. Even I have compromised the ethics for a quick sale once or twice...

I have found the Slimy Ones sink to the bottom!!

Unfortunatley it seems when someone steals from you using unethical tactics it comes at the worst times. Remember lead by example;I have stayed true to my commitment of ethics and believe me where I live the compition is frightening. Once you get a reputation in this business others know and pretty soon we all just steer clear of anything the unethical agent may offer. Becareful not Slandeer or Bad mouth we just know who they are. We talk about them at mixers. HA HA Losers

I don't think its right, as a professional, to act unethically. It's your obligation to represent the industry. I think a lot of the foreclosures recently are the bi-product of several unethical decisions.

Agreed, we want to change things in the real estate business. However, then it becomes important that we should be able to precisely explain what are the things that are to be changed in the real estate? So everyone please suggest what all should be curbed out of real estate?.

There are times when representing a client that you have to cross the line of feelings and business. As long as I don't break the laws or violate ethics.

Example: I represent a buyer. The Listing agent can't keep her mouth shut, tells me his client needs to sell NOW. I'm going to share that info with my client, it is my duty. So I present lowball offer, I know my client is willing and able to pay more, but I serve my client.

I have represented people that were complete A-holes. I was to deep into the transaction to fire them as clients, did not care if the deal fell apart, but I wanted to see it close. At the end of the day, I felt like we raped the seller, the buyer was a total pri%%, and if he never calls me again, thats fine (as I will not talk to him anyways, and I hope to see him on my forclosure list). But, I still cashed my check, and spent it. Its business.

I do not get paid to be an activest. I offer MY OPINION, MY ADVICE. If I wanted to change the world I would find a new career that paid me to do so. The purpose of this forum and others is a chance for agents across the country/world, to network, offer advice, and have a bit of fun in the process.

I play fair and honest until the other side doesn't. If they want to play the game in an unfair manner then I can play by their rules too.

My clients come first and I will not let someone else's lack of character affect my client's outcome.

so, are we appealing to legal principles, such as those outlined in the US Constitution (the basis for our legal system)....or some other ethical or moral standard? ultimately, who determines what is acceptable?

are you suggesting that the majority should always prevail? please note that the US Constitution GUARANTEES the rights of the MINORITY.

well, if you are going to discuss the "right way" vs the "legal way" or "our way"... you have to look to the NAR Code of Ethics and how that translates into protectionism for this industry and how it stifles competition.

Broker, I agree completely. and it is important to note that most agent DO NOT have a choice concerning NAR membership. per Association rules, if the employing broker is a member, ALL agents under the broker's license MUST also be members. that is not a competitive environment.

another rule some of the local MLS/boards are implementing is that all broker listings must have a Supra electronic lockbox, if a lockbox is placed on the property. A combo box alone cannot be put on the property unless it is used in conjunction with a Supra box.

this effectively forces the agents to buy GE Supra lockboxes, if they previously did not use them. it also forces the agents to purchase the annual eKey subscription, paid to the local Board/MLS.

this is a ridiculous requirement, and should be of no concern to the local Board. The broker/agent is responsible for the management of the property. It is the broker/agent's and client's decision to determine which type of lockbox is appropriate. Any benefit accrues strictly to the local Board and GE, their exclusive vendor.

this is yet another example of the intrusive and monopolistic demands of the existing NAR/board/MLS membership.

If broker/agents (independent businesses) don't have a problem with that, they are NOT in control of their industry.

Nar and the state associations do not impose any lock box requirements. Even if the local board wants lock boxes on a property the property owner can refuse.

One of my MLSs used to have a circular key mechanical lock box system; they discontinued it and have not replaced it.

My other MLS is no longer board owned and they encourage but do not require the use of electronic lock boxes.

I use personally owned mechanical ones only, set to the codes as required by my listing clients.

"Nar and the state associations do not impose any lock box requirements. Even if the local board wants lock boxes on a property the property owner can refuse."

I know of at least one local board that is now REQUIRING GE electronic Supra boxes (only choice) on all MLS-listed properties that have a lockbox. This means if the agent currently has a combo box on the property, they will need to purchase an electronic Supra box and put it on the property also. If agents don't comply, they will receive a "citation". what comes after the citation I don't know.

Perhaps that board can dictate the use of the Supra lock box but I'm confident it is still subject to the property owner's permission to have any lock box.

Lockboxes Locally a lockbox is not mandatory, but some years ago when it was announced that the electronic lockbox would soon be available, I made a telephone call to the national distributor and was told, to my surprised, that the local board had purchased quite a few of their lockboxes with the intention of selling them at a profit to their members and to subsequently follow up with subscriptions fees from their members.

Subsequently, the Board was promoting these new lockboxes and offering a credit to the members who turned in their current lockboxes, but never did they mention anything about the forthcoming subscription fees.

Basically, this credit was an effort to remove all the current lockboxes from the local market, with the only alternative being the new electronic ones.

The older and wiser brokers retained their older combination lockboxes and have never regretted doing so.

Important Notice: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a lawyer. There is NO epresentation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information .

^^^

yes, a manipulative tactic characteristic of the existing Board/MLS systems.

the bottom line is...the local board has no business telling local brokers and agents what lockbox they should use, while forcing them to pay more for eKey subscription fees.

that decision is a matter strictly between the broker and the client.

Amen. Revolt against the machine.

It is at the sellers option to use a lockbox or not, any type.
Obviously you don't care about the additional security features that the Supra boxes provide for your clients.

Are you saying combo boxes are not as safe as Supra boxes? Shouldn't a broker/agent have the choice to which they use?

Yes.
and
Yes. Brokers should have the choice of lock boxes, to NOT provide the best and safest method available if they so desire. (until they get sued by the seller or are not covered under their E&O for not providing the most secure method available)

http://www.srcar.org/supra_faq.asp

http://tinyurl.com/gymf5

this is a ridiculous requirement, and should be of no concern to the local Board. The broker/agent is responsible for the management of the property. It is the broker/agent's and client's decision to determine which type of lockbox is appropriate. Any benefit accrues strictly to the local Board and GE, their exclusive vendor.

Shana

This requirement from the Board of Realtors in Las Vegas stems from the reality that a lot of agents give the MLS printouts to their buyers and if there is a combo lock box the buyer will have easy access to the house. This does not satisfy the requirement to ensure that only Realtors have access to the house.

That is a BS reason! I use many combo lock boxes but never publish the code in MLS, showing instructions are for the agent to contact me for the lock box code.

^^

exactly. lockbox codes must be put in the "agent only comments" field of the listing, which is not visible in a client printout. MLS members are required to distribute ONLY the client printouts to clients.

for REO brokers, electronic lockboxes are usually an unnecessary expense.

If the bank or client doesn't require them, then yes, the broker will use his discretion. the point is, this is the broker's decision. the local Board committee should not be making those business decisions for the broker. It's not the purpose for the Board's existence.

Do you have a link to your boards policy manual showing the required use of the SUPRA lockbox?
I can't believe it's in there.

Here is a link to ours.

http://www.pikespeakrsc.com/PPMLSRULES.pdf