Has anyone visited the "Christian Real Estate Network"? www.hismove.com

What do they do different from other Realtors? Ask buyers and sellers to pray before signing?

A great agent provides terrific service to atheists and persons of all faiths.

Considering that there are probably more false Christians than pure ones (don't even get me started about child-molesting priests) who is it exactly that will be certifying the holiness credentials of members of the Christian Real Estate Network? Would I like you to refer me to a Christian agent, loan officer, appraiser, etc.? No. Just refer me to someone competent who will dazzle me with great service. I don't need to know his or her faith.

I went to that traveling sales extravaganza with Zigler and Guliani and Powell recently...or half of it, at least. I had to leave when I was told that only Christians could be successful. However, I can see that people would sometimes prefer to know the religion of their agent, so good on the hismove people.

I know of one so called "Self Proclaimed" Christian Realtor in my area. He generally puts down other agents by saying he is bringing "Honesty and Integrity" to the world of real estate. The only problem is he's a loser. He overprices constantly, and winds up NOT selling his inventory, therefore lying to his clients, or in the least misleading them as to price, probably because either "God" told him to, or because he is "buying" the listing... and lets them down later..

As far as I'm concerned, I'm more of a Christian than some of these hypocrites out there.. How dare they try to define what a Christian Realtor is? How dare they try to use the Lord's name to make a buck? God, I even see some of these "New Way" churches spewing out Podcasts nowadays... ! It really is ridiculous.. As far as I'm concerned, this "Christian Realtor" crap is another marketing gimmick, and they use God as the "hook"...

Amen.

Those that excessively ware Christianity on their shirtsleeves, generally have little in the heart.

Derived from Observation over 6 decades.

YOu don't supposed any of these folks ar using this as a means to project an honest, ethical image do you? I mean, shoot..if they are apart of the Christian Realtors Network then lack of integrity can't be an issue...right?

I have; the guys that run it are on another online forum I participate in

I'm ambivilent to lukewarm about such operations because their name implies (to me anyway) if you're not a member or endorsed by them, then you're maybe not a Christian.

Their motives are also not altogether altruistic and filled with Christian charity : And: BTW, calling or styling yourself a "Christian Realtor" is a blatant misuse of the word "REALTOR", a violation of NAR's trademark, and illegal; all obviously unchristian traits.

"Render unto Caesar..........etc., etc." :p

I think they're wading out into Fair Housing hot water.

That seems a little bit of a stretch to me.

They're not discriminating against non Christians; only offering to supply Christian Realtors to serve their needs. No FH violation there I can see.

Could you explain your rationale a little further???

That seems a little bit of a stretch to me.

They're not discriminating against non Christians; only offering to supply Christian Realtors to serve their needs. No FH violation there I can see.

Could you explain your rationale a little further???

Steering?

"Wouldn't you rather have a Christian agent that is more interested in YOU than in a commission???"

See? That above statement is on their first page of their website. So, in other words, if you are NOT a Christian Agent, and probably not a member of their "Christian Mafia", then YOU are EVIL! You are in total DISREGARD of ALL agency Laws that say you as a Realtor have to put your clients interests above yours, simply because YOU are NOT a "Christian Realtor!".. You are a SlimeBall, only interested in the commission!

See what I mean?
Thanks
Jim...

There are some Christian networks in Austin and people seem pleased. I haven't heard of that particular one, but I have never heard anyone say they don't like being part of Christian networks or that there are scams going on.

Fair Housing Laws require that we treat everyone the same regardless of their being in a "protected class" or not.

Unless a Christian Realtor treats every single client the same, they're opening themself up to a discrimination lawsuit.

If the Christian Realtor has a bad day and forgets to fax a client, is late to their appointment, or can't return a phone call promptly - a non-Christian client could perceive that poor service as mistreatment.

The client will think that he would be receiving his fax, or getting his call returned, or not be kept waiting if he were a Christian.

Whether it's true or not - that could be the client's perception, and perception is reality. Many protected class citizens have a chip on their shoulder and always perceive things that go wrong as being "racist" or "homophobic" or "sexist" - whatever.

Another example: If a Christian Realtor makes a habit to pray with his Christian clients during a home tour, he better pray with them all or it's discrimination.

We have many companies in the atlanta,ga area that have faith based names solid source realty,covenant realty,etc.We don't cram anything down anyone's throat.In fact I never even mention it unless the sellers and buyers ask.For me it's more about belonging to an organization that I share the same values,beliefs,and direction with.I can see how belonging to an organization on refferals can be used in the wrong way.There are other organizations out there gay,elderly etc.


It is pretty funny though I have seen a local preacher around here charge a couple 10 percent commission on a residential listing and it became news in the paper that he ripped them off.

I have two questions for the owners of the Christian Real Estate Network: First, What type of Christians are allowed to join – sinning or non-sinning? Second, what background check is undertaken to confirm that members are devout, non-sinning practitioners?

Where could you have possibly come up with Steering based on this topic.

Steering is something you would do to your clients by directing them to a specific area based on protected classes. Nothing to do with the Christian Referral Network!

Fair Housing rules also have no bearing on this topic.

Paul, I took it that the act of dealing with a "Christian" Agent will take precedence over any laws, for the sake of "Religious Christianity" and the agent will feel like he can break any law... IE, the buyers want to live near a certain "Christian Influenced" area... Think I'm kidding? You know I am not..

As for The "Christian" Agents, I can just see it now.."The market shows your home to be $20,000 overpriced, but that's okay... We'll have another prayer session tommorow and God will help us overcome that.... ".. Let's hope these "Christian" agents also remember that God only helps those those who help themselves...

I once dealt with a "Fire and Brimstone" mininster who had horrible credit, he got VERY upset when he could not get pre approved, and threatened to sue everyone.

When he opened a church later, he embezzled all the money and went down south... The term "Christian" means nothing to me... The term "Crook" means a lot..There's always a new one hitting the news every day...

Jim

Jerry W,
So if this were about a Muslim or Jewish Referral Agent Network would you be posting here with such venom? Funny how everyone feels they can attack anything Christian but would hesitate to attack it if it was Muslim, Jewish or another religion.

The 25% referral fee is pretty standard for any type of referral, including the part of it being 25% before your broker split. This is the way referrals work or were you not aware of this or perhaps trying to make some other point about it.

Regarding your sinner comment. Last time I checked we were all sinners! Do you claim to be without sin? Or perhaps you personally know someone that matches that description.


This is simply another referral company. No better or worse than any other.

There are many companies through out the country that market themselves as Christian companies on that comes to mind immediately is ServiceMagic. The individuals that started hismove.com are no different.

Jim,
If a client comes to you and tells you he wants to live within say St. Mary's Parish as an example because he plans to attend that church and send his kids to the parish school then you show him homes that fit that description. You are not in violation to any laws because your client has specifically requested to be shown homes in that area and it deals with a geographic area of town.

You also seem to be bitter in the way you use unrealistic examples to make attacks on christian religion. The bad examples that you use are not the Rule but the exception.

Perhaps I'm totally missing something here, but I fail to see the big sinister plot behind a handful of real estate agents networking together under an umbrella as large as Christianity.

From perusing the pitiful arguments against such a network, I get the feeling some here doth protest too much, methinks.

I know slimy people from all walks of life. That hardly qualifies me to paint everyone from a similar circumstance slimy.

But since several of you are morally outraged by this, I would ask if you are equally outraged by:

THIS

OR THIS?

Not judging, just asking.
JTKing

Paul: Are you a member of the Christian Real Estate Network? Does it screen out sinners from membership or not? (and I'm talking about people in general, not you) If so, how? If not, what value would a buyer or seller get from one of its member agents that they couldn't or wouldn't get elsewhere?

I think it is hyprocritical for anyone of any religion to try to attract business based on their religion, if in their heart they don't practice what they preach. Saying "we are all sinners" does not give this organization high marks nor does it change the fact that it is a marketing vehicle designed to enrich its creators.

That's really stupid, I once received and email get a Cristian loan as low as 1%. What the hell !
God is going to underwrite my loan. lmao

Some of you are not "getting" it. It's not that Christians treat other Christians better than they treat non-Christians. It's that as a group, Christians are honest and fair. Sure there are some bad apples in the barrel, but overall there's an expectation of a higher standard. Sort of like real estate agents and Realtors. We who call ourselves Realtors hold to a higher standard of service. Yet there are good and bad Realtors and good and bad real estate agents. But hopefully people will pick a Realtor because the majority of us work at living up to that higher standard.


One more note, and I'll put away my soapbox. It has nothing to do with sinners and non-sinners. We are all sinners. But Christians are sinners who have been forgiven. It is an inner transformation that motivates us to live better lives.

Hmm. I came back and was really surprised at some of the vehemence on the board. I'm gay, and I certainly understand people looking for a gay realtor. I can understand someone with a specific religious need wanting a realtor who understands that need (for example, some Indian nations would prefer a home with a door which faces east).

But I really don't care for the generalization that just because you've named yourself a Christian realtor means you hold yourself to a higher standard.

And just like the website advertising "Christian Realtors" the implication in your statement above is that "as a group, Christians are honest and fair.".

Hopefully Christians are honest and fair; and just as hopefully Realtors who agree to abide by the NAR Code of Ethics are also honest and fair.

Is a Christian Realtor necessarily more "honest and fair" than say a Hindu Realtor???, a Jewish Realtor???, a Native American Realtor???

The problem I have arises when someone attempts to set one group above another as more "honest and fair" as the website in question here clearly does.

BTW, just for the record I'm a Christian and an Elder in my church but I don't feel the need to wear either accomplishment on my sleeve; especially to attract business.

Well said.

Jim, I'm also an e-PRO, tutored by your very own program. I call myself an e-PRO, and so do you. Chances are, you're better on the Internet than I am, but that doesn't mean I don't do my very best for my clients. And it doesn't mean that I'm better on the Internet than some other agent who doesn't have the e-PRO designation.

What it does say is, I care enough to try to live up to that standard I mentioned. I go the extra mile to stay on top of my game. Selecting a Realtor who also claims to be a Christian (whether they actually are or not), gives the buyer/seller a pool of agents so they are more likely to find one whose motives match their expectations.

No discriminating here. I am just a person who puts her faith in God and Christian Real Estate Network is not the only referral group I belong to.


I am surprised at all the attention this topic brought. But I guess that is what we are here for.


I might not agree with all of you, but I do respect your opinions.


Hope you all are having a wonderful weekend.

Does anyone else but me think it's weird that apparently many Christian members of the public think that the Bible or their life experience has told them that they should transact their real estate business only with Christian agents and exclude doing business with non-Christian agents? This doesn't sound "Christian" to me but I'm no expert. Is this one of the beliefs of Christianity? Did this start with Jesus? Is this something Jesus would do? Are other religions preaching intra-religious economics only?

Who said that?

It's not unusual at all for people of a particular faith, creed, or lifestyle to seek out others of a similar lifestyle when wanting to do business. But I didn't see anything in this thread talking about doing business ONLY with Christians to the exclusion of all others.

Sheesh!

Niche marketing , nothing more.

Seems like everyone is making a big deal about this. Their policies don't seem any different than Cendant's policies concerning refferals.

I know a agent that is involved with that network , according to them its pretty good. Having said that , I know around here we have a few agents that pull the whole "I'm the only honest agent in town" thing. Its just thier ploy/niche and if it works for them , so be it , I'll sell more houses on my work of doing my best to be the best.

Jerry W,
You really seem to have no clue about this topic.

First I am not a member of the Christian Referral network.

Second there is NO difference from any other referral network.

This network simply targets Christian buyers and sellers that prefer doing business with someone that at least on the surface shares the same values that they do.

This is not a religion that is "preaching" this it is simply 1 or 2 Christian business men doing this. I would bet if you searched hard enough you could find a Muslim, Jewish or other religious based referral network.

That attitude is what's going to cause the ol' slippery slope right down into Fair Housing Land. Walk around with that 'tude and people who don't meet your high standards of religious belief are going to be treated as less than those who do. Oh you can say you won't, but working with the godless heathens has GOT to have an effect on your attitude towards them as opposed to how you feel towards your group.

Hey Deb, do you have gaydar? Tell us how many of these gay-hating preachers from Haggard's church have something to hide:

Artiste, have you read the Bible at all?

Jesus Himself fraternized with tax collectors, who were despised for their greed and dishonesty; adulterers, lepers, self-righteous politicians, and all sorts of perceived undesirables.

Picture it: you are on floor duty and a call comes in. The caller is obviously, by the pitch of her voice, a young girl. She has a Southern drawl to her speech. There are a couple of screaming kids in the background, and the TV is on, loud. The caller asks you about a pricey home that is listed with your office. Do you take the time to discuss her wants/needs in a home and attempt to help her? Or do you blow her off as a clueless dumb kid? Be honest. I had such a call, and the young lady turned out to be the wife of a surgeon who was relocating to our area.

As for working with "godless heathens," Christians are notorious for that. And what it does is give them an even deeper love for the people they are ministering to. I don't judge my clients on the basis of any outward criteria. I look at their needs and their ability to meet their financial obligations in purchasing a home. And I encourage them to make sound decisions, not act on emotions. I don't push them to overextend their resources or rush into a decision before they're ready. That's what a Christian viewpoint is all about.

Read it, altargirl, baptized by the Holy Spirit, summers at a church camp, AWANA, and uuummmm...I think that's everything so far. Going to church tomorrow too, as usual.

I've been dealing with Fair Housing law for nearly 5 years and I treat everyone the same and that includes NOT having a "deeper love" for the non-Christians.

Cute how you assumed I didn't know that Jesus was a Progressive Revolutionary Liberal Long-haired Hippie Jew. He probably wore organic clothes too.

Glad you told me, Artiste. I never would have guessed.

Hey Paul, thanks for letting us know that you're not a member of the CREN. For the record, a network like this which has a website which implies that non-Christian agents are mostly concerned about earning a commission and not the welfare of the client is not something I would categorize as typical of any other referral network.

If you know of Jewish or gay or Muslim or atheist or Taoist or Native American or any other referral networks that imply that only their members provide honest service and that non-member agents are only interested in commissions, please share them with us. I find all "holier than thou" organizations equally despicable.

I think we all just need to agree to disagree about this topic; no minds are going to be changed.

The original post was does anyone know about the Christian Realtor referral network and everyone's opinions about that topic are crystal clear.

If the owners of hismove.com are realtors, then the statement on their website which reads: “Wouldn’t you rather have a Christian agent that is more interested in YOU than in a commission???” violates the NAR code of ethics because it implies that non-Christian agents are more interested in getting a commission than in serving their client.

Quoting from the NAR Code of Ethics:

“They [REALTORS®] identify and take steps, through enforcement of this Code of Ethics and by assisting appropriate regulatory bodies, to eliminate practices which may damage the public or which might discredit or bring dishonor to the real estate profession.” Implying that non-Christian agents are more interested in getting a commission than in serving their client discredits and dishonors the real estate profession.

“They [REALTORS®] refrain from making unsolicited comments about other practitioners” Implying that non-Christian agents are more interested in getting a commission than in serving their client constitutes making unsolicited comments about other practitioners.

“REALTORS® shall not knowingly or recklessly make false or misleading statements about competitors, their businesses, or their business practices.” Implying that non-Christian agents are more interested in getting a commission than in serving their client is false, reckless and misleading.

^^Jerry wins the thread!

[quote}Glad you told me, Artiste. I never would have guessed.[/quote]
That's because I'm an Episcopalian!

I'm not sure if all the principals in www.HisMove.com are current or past Realtors. Being an NAR member doesn't seem to be a criteria for 'membership' although several of the members appear to be Realtors.

File a grievance and see where it goes.

I filed one several years against a local operation of a national franchise that was using some misleading information in their ads.

I would also bet you 10 dollars to a doughnut (Christians bet too ;-)), that their 'members' are not routinely dislcosing to their buyers and sellers referred from the HisMove.com that HisMove is getting a 25% rebate fromt their commissions. Non disclosure of that fact would be an ethics violation.

Here is a line from their website about referral fees.
"We are able to provide this as a free service because of the fees we charge our members. We currently have over 1,000."

Looks like they pass the disclosure test.

I think that the NAR "Ethics" violation is a very long stretch. When you consider that Lending Tree has "Approved Professionals" which using Jerry W's logic would "imply" that everyone else are Not Approved Professionals.

The funny part of this whole discussion is that what they are doing is absolutely no different than any other referral network that targets any lifestyle.

Some people in this thread have just chosen to bash this particular referral network because they are openly christian. Funny how it has become so popular to open bash "Christians" but most of those that do would never say anything against Muslims, Jews for fear of being called a Bigot, but they can safely bash Christians because it is fashionable or politically correct to do so!

JMHO

Not necessarily Paul.

I didn't mean just having it on the website.

Every Realtor that accepts any sort of buyer or seller referral from them would be ethically required to disclose to the consumer, the fact that he or she is rebating 25% of the commission back to HisMove.com for the 'privilege' of serving them (in addition to their 10% tithe of course :p )

In most states the real estate commissions compel that disclosure to a consumer of real estate services also.

I believe you'll also agree that a consumer doesn't always get the 'best and the brightest' by using licensees referred from any website or entity; this one included.

Being a Christian and practicing the tenets of your faith makes you a better person (hopefully) but does it necessarily make you a better Realtor???

Paul, a statement that a network has "approved professionals" is not the same message as “Wouldn’t you rather have a Christian agent that is more interested in YOU than in a commission???” Get real.

Could you please cite some examples of statements made by non-Christian networks that blatantly imply what this one does? That non-members are only interested in a buck. If you can, then it doesn't mean that CREN's statement is okay, it merely shows that those other networks engage in the same misleading practices. And if you know of some, then please do list some specific examples here as I think it will help educate everyone. If you know of Jewish or gay or Muslim or atheist or Taoist or Native American or any other referral networks that imply that only their members provide honest service and that non-member agents are only interested in commissions, please share them with us so they can be exposed for what they are. Perhaps all of them should be reported to NAR for potential code violations.

If it makes you feel better, I have a problem with all of the below:
Wouldn’t you rather have a Jewish agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a Hindu agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a Native American agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a gay agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a Muslim agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a Taoist agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have an atheist agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a non-Christian agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a pantheist agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a black agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???
Wouldn’t you rather have a Sikh agent that is more interested in You than in a commission???

The reason the Christian Real Estate Network’s statement draws some fire is because while it is trying to project an image of virtuousness, it is subtly denigrating others. If it merely advertised: “Contact us if you would like a Christian agent to represent you” I wouldn’t have an issue with it. However, it denigrates others by casting aspersions on non-Christian interests, suggesting non-Christians are only interested in money and not the client. Funny, isn’t it? Why was the network created? Probably to make money for the creators. Why do they charge money to join? Why do they charge referral fees? Why do member agents join? Give up? It’s so they can make money! I suppose you’ll tell us that really that’s not the case. These members want to “minister” to each other and that money is just a necessary evil that they are willing to accept. Bull. They are in it for the money. For their network to suggest that non-Christian agents are really more interested in money and won’t serve their interests as well as Christian agents will (who remember are not really interested in money) PURE HYPOCRISY. That’s why it’s easy to criticize this network.

And some people still think that most wars are not about religion....

Good one RC. :p

Paul: the reason no one bashes Jews, Muslims or other religions is that they don't try to cram their theology down everyone's throat. They also don't routinely assemble entire stadiums full of people, where they chant how they are the best religion, and how they need to pray for all the other non-believers' souls. They also don't pollute an entire hour or two of a TV channel once a year with their "message". They also don't leave their holy books in every hotel room. I can go on and on.

Christianity has become the most hypocritical and just plain annoying religion out there, and that's why they get bashed. I'll point out the various instances of where they tried to influence the teaching of evolution in schools, and tried to install creation "science" as mandatory curriculum.

In my experience, people who flaunt their Christianity are almost always conceited and think they're better than the non-believers. They always try to recruit you, some do it subtly and some don't.

A Christian realtor will not be any better at his job than some other one. However, they ARE trying to imply that because they are Christian, somehow their ethics and values are better than everyone else's, and that makes it ethically wrong.

RonSmith,

No one bashes Muslims because they, "don't try to cram their theology down everyone's throat"?

I guess that's why countries like Egypt, Iran and Syria are so well known for their stances on religious tolerance and progressive affirmation of women's rights. Perhaps you would do well to pick up a book, newspaper or audit a class at your local community college sometime.

I can't for the life of me fathom how HisMove.com, which I am not a member of, could generate so much hatred and negativity. None of this is about the "heathen" real estate agents among us, it's about the comfort and perception of the potential client. I have no problem with a person desiring to use someone as their agent based on a perceived comfort whether it be Black folks looking to use a Black agent or agency, Hispanic folks using a Hispanic agent or agency, Gay folks using a Gay agent or agency or Christian folks using a Christian agent or agency.

They may or may not wind up with poor service by limiting their criteria to one specific group or cross section of people, but that is their choice. If John and Jane Doe want to use an agent who is more interested in the Great Commission than a real estate commission... so be it. Why should you or I care?

I'm pretty sure the rift runs deeper than someone caring about a website that boasts a network of a thousand or so agents. Maybe some entrepreneur here will start an agnostic lead network. And you know, that would be fine with me too.

I'm not threatened by any of it,
JTKing

I couldn't give a hoot what religion an agent is or even if an agent wants to call himself a "Christian Agent. Jerry W's last post hit the nail right on the head.

Thanks
Jim

The less God interferes with my listings the happier I am. I will never take a listing from a person who substitutes logic with "faith". People like that are impossible to deal with...I know from experience.

I dont know if it was the 12 years of catholic schooling that ruined it for me or just the fact that I can now see through all the BS but organized religion is so tainted. 99% of the super religious people i have encountered are the biggest phonies.

To me religion is the biggest and scariest weapon out there.

OH great, argue by insulting my intelligence. Perhaps you'd be served well by a reading comprehension class. Read AGAIN what I wrote. When was the last time you saw Muslims preaching on a street corner, handing out Quran to people. Yes, they have their own weird traditions and they thing we are infidels, but it ends there. Any idiot knows that their militancy uses Islam only as an excuse, and their real motivation is political.

So any other examples? Care to argue about Buddhists or Jews?

Anyway, nobody hates your stupid referral network. Nobody could care less. I'm telling you what perception your statements generate, such as the one where you imply that christian agents are more ethical than others, who only care about commission. Typical we-re-better-than-you crap.

Ron,

I find it interesting that you can so clearly and conclusively dissect the intent of another humans heart. Your "learned" ways allow you to know that practitioners of Islam don't really hold to their religious belief for purity, but for political means... presumably "world domination". At least that is the typical belief held by those who believe as you do. Or that the "We're better than you" mindset is typical of Christians. Another wild, broad and prejudicial statement.

If you couldn't care less (I'm assuming that is what you meant, forgive me if I'm wrong) about the HisMove.com network, then it has to be something deeper. The implication that you draw from their statement is most likely based on your own insecurities about something else. There's nothing unethical about earning a commission, so why would that disturb you?

If I were a member of the Christian public perusing this board to find an agent near me, I would be cautious about choosing you to represent me. Clearly you have no respect for Christianity, nor do you appear to consider a believer an equal. Your statements bear a strong disdain for Christianity, not HisMove.com. I feel no need to debate or discuss with you the tenants of Judaism, Buddhism or Taoism. As Jim Lee stated, neither of us will change our opinions one iota. I will agree to disagree with you on this.

I hold no ill toward you or anyone else that has posted here. It just really surprises me that some are so vicious toward something so benign as a real estate lead network.

May the Force be with you,(That's for all the practicing Jedi's out there!)
JTKing

Right on, JT!

I wasn't vicious. I was responding to Paul, who can't understand why it's so "fashionable" to bash Christianity while no-one ever bashes the other religions.

My stance on this referral network is that it's in typical christian style...using religion to try and win over trust. Not something that I think is ethical, no mater what the religion is. Seeing how christians are the only ones who prostitue their religion out for political or financial gain (here in the US at least), that's why it gets so much negative publicity.

Btw, the original post was SPAM! A totally useless topic started specifically to promote the website. I'm willing to bet this network is virtually non-existent and they're trying to spam their way through websites to gain more members.

How do I wish you were right. Live amongst them, and tell me how easy it is to practice your faith.

I struggle with sending this post, I'd like to see the whole topic come to an end.
The original post was just a question. All it needed was a yes or a no or no comment at all. As a Christain, I feel the one being attached by some and I should not be surprised.
And on the other hand it is really interesting to read inserts from those that show wisdom, and an open mindeness for others instead of hate and bashing.
Look into your heart as you write your remarks. Do you see hate or peace. I hope those of you who see hate can find peace.
Respectfully,
mccrpt - Pat

no.


(edirted to close tags)

BOY BOY!, If you want a post to take off just bring up the word Christian! To the Christians on this board: The Bible says that if the world loves you...you are not a Christian. I would like to thank all the people of the "world" on this board who has proven this. To the non-Christians on this board, Christians are not perfect. Have a great day. BigC

Wow! It's statements like these that explain why so many people dislike religious Christians. A classic example of using self-pity and guilt to try to win others over: oh, look at us poor christians, we suffer for everyone's sins and in return we just get kicked around, wah! wah!

I've known some christians who are cool about their religion, but once again you guy prove my point. Those who show off their christianity are the arrogant and conceited ones.

Anybody sell any houses this weekend?

I do agree that bringing up anything religous or political on an online forum will put people at odds with one another in no time. The original poster knew this when he started this topic. If I am incorrect and he did not know this, he /she must have never spent any time in an online forum. I have frequented lots of fourms surrounding different topics. When a topic involving religion is initiated, a brouhaha will certainly follow.
Thats a lock.

Right on, smgardner. That's why I think religion has no place in politics or business. When you openly advertise your religion you'll always run the risk of alienating a lot of potential clients. I've never understood why businesses put jesus fishes on their yellow book ads. Is that supposed to be some secret society code? Are you trying to subtly let other christians know that you're cool to work with, while hoping the general public of heathens doesn't "get it"?

Well, to clarify my post. I was by no means posting Pro-Christian or Anti-Christian. I keep my thoughts and beliefs to myself as they are personal. I was just pointing out that a firestorm will ensue when one starts a topic involving religion or politics.

Jim,
The same thing can be said of someone referring an agent to someone on the CRS website so in that I agree. Just because you have a CRS or are a member of a particular referral network does not make you the best choice to market a particular piece of property.

Referral networks are just another means of marketing, no better and no worse than any other and that is my entire point in this discussion.

Jerry W, ronsmith and others that wish to bash religion based or sexual preference or race referral networks as it was mentioned by Jerry W. Here are just a few I located for you. Should you wish to find more just let your fingers do the walking over your keyboard.


http://www.shalomhome.com/

http://www.gayrealestate.com/

http://www.blackrefer.com/housing.html

Paul, you are avoiding the issue that ignited this thread...

Nowhere in Shalomhome do I read that if you are Jewish, you should use a Shalomhome agent because they'll care more about you than an everyday agent, who'll care more about their commission than YOU! Unless I missed it, then I think there's nothing wrong with Shalomhome home...

Same thing with the other two sites.. Saying they'll represent your best interests is fine, it's the way that they say....

"Wouldn't you rather have a Christian agent that is more interested in YOU than in a commission???"

that kills it for me... What I take it by saying that is that NO other agent, even a buyer agent bound by Law, will care for you more than a Christian Agent.. even if that Christian Agent is a Seller's Agent, or a Facilitator, working with a buyer. The fact that the agent is a "Christian" agent sepercedes everything else. They are above all laws and Realtor ethics, simply because they are a "Christian" agent.

If the religion were Muslim, or Buddhist, or Scientologist, for that matter, instead of Christian, I would be just as disgusted.. It's not the religion, it's the implication...

Get the point?

Straight Shooter,
How you read what they put on their site is totally a matter of perception. Your Perception!

So what you are saying is you object ONLY to that Single sentence on the hismove.com site, it that right?

So exactly where on the site did you read that "The fact that the agent is a "Christian" agent sepercedes everything else. They are above all laws and Realtor ethics, simply because they are a "Christian" agent." or was this again your perception?

So I have a question for you. When you are doing a listing presentation do you "imply" that you are better than all your competition?

It is you that misses my point. This is ALL Marketing! The site owners have chosen to target market to Christians and judging by their marketing page they are doing just that! They then recruit Christian agents to whom they refer these buyers and sellers. Target Marketing 101!

Replace "Christian" with any group or lifestyle of your choosing and redirect the marketing to the new target client and you are in business.

Paul:

You don't understand.

The world will just not be right until there is a Secular Angry Progressive (SAP) Referral Network so the truly enlightened can market to one another/sarc

Merry Christmas.

Robert,
Fortunately I do understand!

Merry Christmas and a profitable New Year from a fellow Culture Warrior

You can think what ever you want buddy, I could care less. Your opinion is worthless to me. Self pity and guilt? Yea that's me. You think I'd beg anybody to be a Christian? Your a grown person,at least I hope you are..you can make your own choices in life. So come on and fire back at me if you want..The only reason I come to this board is for a good laugh anyway. Do everybody a favor and go sell something. BigC

lol.
Christin the house. Pray for the highest net amount possible.

I can't even read anymore of this thread. 2 posts is enough.

Paul,
All I gotta say is I didn't se this crap on the Jewish or black site YOU provided...

... and oh, by the way, I am a Christian .. I just don't go around saying stupid things LOL.. If my perceptions don't agree with yours or anyone's, at this point I really don't care anymore..

Hallelujah ! Brother! We are going to make an offer on the property! By the Brace of God, Let us pray the seller will reduce the price..

LOL...

There is a new designation coming out, "CRS". Certified Religious Specialist

Straight Shooter,
You failed to answer my question. If the site removed that single "offensive" to you line would you be ok with the site? Also the jury is out at this point over saying stupid things. So what crap were you speaking of?

Pikes,
Perhaps you should give up real estate and become a comic.

In answer, I thought I made it clear, the way I wrote my post.. If that line were removed, of course I wouldn't have a problem with it.. I don't see that line anywhere else, do you?

Paul, I basically won't go to my church that I was born into because I have read and actually heard the priest say things like "We are the true, original church".. Every other church is a lie, and because they don't follow the Original teachings of the early church everything else is denounced. The problem I have is that same exact kind of attitude. That kind of stuff was printed. It angered me sufficiently to never go back. This is the place my parents, relatives, everyone I know in my immediate sphere goes.. It just didn't sit right. Only God can decide who's better in terms of religious beliefs. I despise that line in question because to me it sounds all inclusive.

Thanks
Jim

"Wouldn't you rather have a Christian agent that is more interested in YOU than in a commission???"

"Does God want you to be in debt? does God want you to have good credit? well we believe God does"


Can you still get in Heaven even if you Pimp out the "Almighty"?

"Jerry,
As we said before, I'm sorry about your situation. We did everything we could to help you.

I'm going to be brutally honest here... Why do you seem to have a general dislike for Christians? You yourself claiming to be a Christian. All I hear is whining and complaining about your situation, and just wanting to blame everyone else... especially the "wealthy Christians" who you seem to think owe you something, or have some kind of conspiracy against you." -From Message Board
-Very, very Christian like attitude.

Hello to all!

I found this forum because I had a couple of questions about broker/agent issues, but became interested in this thread. I'll get to my questions later-- and I'm happy I found this forum.

The reason I wanted to read these threads is that I'd seen a couple of agents at our office sending out farming materials with Christian symbols, some references to being Christians, and a Christian-symbol stamp. They also have symbols on their autos as do one or two other agents. I wondered if that was a good idea in re Fair Housing. It turns out that it's not only a bad idea, but a very bad idea.

Apparently Realtors are not permitted to use any religious symbols or religious references in any marketing/advertising media whatsoever. Neither can an office display any frank religious symbols during holidays other than, say Christmas trees, Santas, Easter bunnies, etc. The Christian "fish" symbol on an auto can also have a discriminatory effect as it implies a preference for like-mindedness and can discourage the un-likeminded.

I honestly don't believe it's a "stretch" to think the topic'd referral network may be in violation of those constraints.

According to the Guidance Regarding Advertisements Under 804(c) of the Fair Housing Act, Section 804(c) of the Act "prohibits the making, printing and publishing of advertisements which state a preference, limitation or discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin."

In the main, any religious symbol or reference to a religious affliation as preferred, or business-related claims or implications that the followers of one religion are somehow superior to the followers of another or none can have the effect of repelling individuals of other religions or no religion to do business with them. It may not overtly discriminate, but it can have the effect of discrimination.

Exactly, DueDiligence (welcome to the board, btw,) it's playing with Fair Housing fire.

For that reason alone is enough for me not to join the network. That and the fact I fear the network tends towards the rabid "Jesus Camp" Fundies and the like. Those people scare me.

I live in New York. A lot of the buyer's I know are turned off by overtly Christian sign offs and stuff in the realtor's communcations. I think this is something that goes over big in the Bible belt.

I guess everyone does it differently.I have known nice people that were white,black,spanish,etc..I have also known bad people from different races.I just see a person in a r.e. transaction not all of the mumbo jumbo.

I guess the networks have there place.I just don't choose to do business that way.

DueDiligence,

Here is an addition to your Fair Housing references.

e) Religious Groups.
A limited exception allows religious groups or organizations to advertise:

• Housing they operate on a noncommercial basis,
• Can state a preference for or limitation to members of their religion
• If the religious group does not discriminate on the basis of race, color or national originHowever, such an advertisement may not state any preference other than a preference for members of the religion (e.g., one based on race, gender, or other protected class).


As most agents will work with anyone with money there is nothing about joining a referral network that would violate fair housing. The agent is not refusing to work with anyone.

The referral network is also not violating fair housing as they are not advertising property at all. They are simply target marketing to find buyers and sellers and refer them to an agent in their area.

I think Christian Realtor is buzz word for conservative. Most Americans would consider themselves Christian--but they do not put it in their by line. I'm Christian but I am also a democrat, pro-choice etc. I've always thought it was rather unprofessional of realtors to advertise themselves as anything but their credentials. No one cares if I love dogs, have kids, make cakes, am a Christian, ride harleys or whatever. As an observation, everytime someone makes a point of telling me they are a Christian, I think o my god are they going to pay me? I told another Realtor (who sings faithfully in her Methodist Church) and she said I know exactly what you mean. I have had more problems with so called, "Christian", than any other group of people.

Leave it to a Democrat who is against Life to bring politics into this thread or should we say Liberal as you have identified yourself without actually saying the word. Funny how you were the only one to make this leap. This referral network to which I do not belong simply target markets to Christian organizations, newspapers and other publications and offers to refer them to their member agents. So should you and your Methodist friend be lumped into the "So Called Christians" as you put it? The network does not appear to care what brand of Christianity you practice.

So please tell us how it is unprofessional to market yourself toward groups of people with whom you share a common interest? If you belong to a motorcycle club then target other Harley enthusiasts. I ride a bike and had may times shown property to other bike riders by turning it into a Saturday afternoon ride. I have a friend that likes to sail. He marketed himself at a sailing club and got several transactions by doing this.

Judging by your angry outburst, you're a hardcore christian nut yourself, so perhaps you shouldn't be on here accusing others of being biased. I think we all agreed that bringing faith into business is a bad idea, so WHY DO IT? If you're going to create animosity, alienate potential clients, etc...with your religious zealotry, why do it? Wouldn't it be easier to just advertise yourself on your skills as a realtor alone?

[/QB][/QUOTE]

There's a difference between common interest and common religious beliefs. That difference has to do with the fact that riding harleys is just a fun pastime, while religious beliefs are deeply personal and very irrational. They motivate people to make judgments which may not be in everyone's best interest. Example: abortion. Everyone has their beliefs about it, but it's not the job of the government or any particular religious group to impose on others their opinion. Similarly with the teaching of evolution and other sciences.

That's was the reason why so many people have negative feelings associated with hardcore christians. They meddle too much in other people's lives and impose their will.


I propose we end this discussion here. The christians will never "get it" as to what the bickering is all about anyway. Suffice it to say, bringing religion into business is UNPROFESSIONAL. End of story.

Amen

Leave it to a Democrat who is against Life to bring politics into this thread or should we say Liberal as you have identified yourself without actually saying the word. Funny how you were the only one to make this leap.

Paul, I'm sorry, but in my opinion the first to bring politics in was you, when you used the term Culture Warrior. Nothing makes me cringe faster, nor know that the person I'm speaking with has ideals very different from mine.

I am a Christian myself, but that Culture Warrior comment simply confirms that Paul has been Slirping up the KoolAid........................

OMG..

I just finally got to this post. What a racquet!

Sorry Ronald you are way off the mark as usual. My "outburst" as you call it was not at all angry. I was simply commenting on Chare's need to bring her political views to the topic throwing out the conservative comment and she felt compeled to let everyone know that she was a Democrat and Anti-Life. I simply pointed out to her that politics had no place in this topic. She then had to point out that she had to preface her comments by letting everyone know she attends church and in fact has an agent friend that sings in the Methodist Church Choir.

This was all started by someone asking if anyone used hismove.com and a few chose to to slam the site because of its pro-Christian stance. Chare also decided to comment that agents should only market based solely on their credentials and not personal things about the agents such as hobbies, Charities, Civic or Religious organizations or other activities we do when not selling Real Estate. This is a foolish statement as where we go and what we do makes up our sphere of influence

Ron if you feel so strongly about this perhaps you should turn down any business from anyone you attend church with if you go to church and you should definately not take any referrals from someone from church that refers you to a friend of theirs because in your words that would be UNPROFESSIONAL!

I do believe that hismove.com should modify the sentence that set Jerry W off but if you do not like the concept then do not participate in the referral network. Funny how you make comments on the "Hardcore Christians" but it was the Liberal that brought abortion and politics into the Christian Referral Network thread.


There's a difference between common interest and common religious beliefs. That difference has to do with the fact that riding harleys is just a fun pastime, while religious beliefs are deeply personal and very irrational. They motivate people to make judgments which may not be in everyone's best interest. Example: abortion. Everyone has their beliefs about it, but it's not the job of the government or any particular religious group to impose on others their opinion. Similarly with the teaching of evolution and other sciences.

That's was the reason why so many people have negative feelings associated with hardcore christians. They meddle too much in other people's lives and impose their will.


I propose we end this discussion here. The christians will never "get it" as to what the bickering is all about anyway. Suffice it to say, bringing religion into business is UNPROFESSIONAL. End of story. [/QB][/QUOTE]

DebT,
If you are going to comment you should at least get your facts straight so you can at least be factual.

It was Robert that used the SP/SAP reference and I simply made a comment based on that and judging by your dislike of the term Culture Warrior that can only mean you are a Secular Progressive. BTW I am watching The Factor even as I type this.

You are entitled to your opinion but on this you are wrong on the facts.


Jabronie,
Sorry no Kool Aid for me from either the Republicans or the Democrats. I much prefer the Truth to the talking points.

Well, now if I had the choice between the pearly gates and 72 virgins.....

Hangin out with Paul Oaks and Pat Boone
or
surfing on the lake of fire with Bill Hicks and Jimmy Hendrix?

In reply to Paul: Both of my children became vegetarians when they were quite young. The first thing I told them that under no circumstances were they to insult or deride or call people killers for eating meat and that we all had different beliefs and to really prothletize your position was to set a good example and people witll follow. I am liberal in many ways and in many ways not. I'm a real estate broker--I at least believe in owning private property. I resent "Christians" assuming that because I have a graduate degree in liberal arts and vote democrat that I am ungodly, anti-american, unpatriotic, and believe in a libertine life style. And I stand by my position that when people blurt out they are Christian is what they are really telling you is their political beliefs.

So what! People share their religious or political beliefs freely.... that's their choice.

Why be judgmental and snide by saying that by them introducing it into their business relationships it is unprofessional?

I agree that it is judgemental and merely my opinion. I really do not care what other agents or clients do as long as they are honest and ethical. These are observations I have made over the years. Today I will be showing homes to a Babtist preachers son whose parents I have bought and sold homes for for 20 years. We do not talk politics. As a Realtor I do not advertise my beliefs--I believe it is counter productive. If you want to put a fish on your business card, or a dog, or your handicap kid, or dress provocatively in adds--go for it.

Chare,

A person saying they are a "Christian" is not always a political statement and was definately not so in this thread. The fact that you resent Christians that are not afraid to say they are "Christian" is not their problem it is yours. You are fully responsible for your own feelings so if you feel uncomfortable then perhaps you should look within yourself for the answers to those feelings instead of blaming those around you.

Get real! It is a political statement! If you start telling me that you are a Christian the first 30 seconds I talk to you with out any provocation. It tells me that you are a politcal Christian conservative and I do not resent them I feel sorry for them because I believe it is a cult like the hare krishnas or moonies.

It is you that needs to get real and quit being so prejudiced about this. This hangup is your problem and not everyone elses!

It was YOU that jumped to a political context for this topic. From your tone it appears you are far left of center or perhaps an SP. Very typical in that you feel that your opinion is the only one that counts. Read the original post! This was not about politics but about a Christian Referral Network to which only the original poster seems to be a member of.


Funny how you relate Christians to the Moonies or Hare Krishnas. So what sect or cult do you belong to since you just said that Christians that do not hide their religion are cultists?

So tell us all how often "Christians" just come up to you and announce in the first 30 seconds that they are Christians without any provocation? Do Christians approach you at the dry cleaners, the grocery store, the car wash or while you are shopping? If they do what is it about you that seems to draw this kind of attention? Do you look lost or have that crazed non-believer look that compels them to reach out to "save" you? Perhaps they feel sorry for you?

My son used to belong to a church that did this. They would go to the mall or anywhere else with lots of people. According to the teachings of his church you weren't a Christian unless you belonged to their church. Finally after about 3 years he wised up and left the church.

I think these are the kind of Christians that people object to.

I understand perfectly what you are saying and would bet I could name the church in question within 2 guesses! What iritates me with Chare is that she seems have a "Christian" problem based on her political beliefs.
The funniest thing about this whole topic is that the referral network in question target markets to Christians and offers to place them with christian agents. If it is something you are not interested in then do not participate and move on!
People like Chare and others simply used this as an opportunity to take a slap at "christians" and that is the really sad part of this discussion.

Wow , i can't believe that this is on the way to beating out maryknoll's post.........


Paul , this topic prolly needs to die quickly , maybe moving it to shooting the breeze would help out a bit?

Paul,

I love me some Bill O'Reilly! It's always good to "angry up the blood," as Grandpa Simpson says.

I don't mind dicussing politics or religion, so long as we can keep it relatively civil!

Deb - Progressive, yes; Secular, not so much, except in the Constitutional Separation of Church & State sense.

I agree with That 20 Something RE Guy....this topic needs to be laid to rest. We, as Realtors, should all be practicing our professions like Lady Justice, blindfolded....

This is something that is done in all industries, Christian web design, Christian Hosting, you name it.

Just a thought.......

Just a thought.......

Some individuals need to feel that they are part of a group with similar values and ideas.

Put your personal beliefs aside for just a moment. This site offers those in the public that want to work with those professing to be Christ-like a resource. There is another real estate referral site that only works with homosexuals clients, do you feel the same way about that site?

Each site, though extremely different in who they are reaching out to, is offering a service to the public. If it is helpful to the public and those agents are finding success with it, what is wrong with that?