Hello Group--

I am a new member, and I'm glad that I found this forum of agents to confide to.

A little History: I have been a licensed realtor for about seven years now. In the beginning, I only worked at RE part-time as I needed the stability of a pay check. I was laid of from work in September, and have no prospects of a new job. I had been an admin assist for the past 30 years. Now, I'm a full time real estate agent and I have mixed feelings about it. I love the excitement, and challenge of this business, however, I'm finding it a little "scary" not having a steady pay. I'm finding that my "desparation" is making me more serious about my business.

I'm posting here today, because I would like your imput on what happened today at a showing appointment.

I met my customer at a building that I was showing him. The owner/agent was there. He took us on a tour of building, and while he did this, he "talked over me" and wouldn't let me in the conversation. He was building a rapport with my customer. I thought at first, well if it get's him to make an offer sobeit! Anyway, he takes us on a tour of the area (that was nice) and at the end of the appointment. My customer asks him (remember he's the seller and the agent) if he has any more buildings. I retored over him, since he had been deliberately leaving me out, "you can let me know, and I will get in touch with my customer." My customer asked the selling agent, "I have your number on this." The agent replies, "yeah, it's on the listing sheet." I thought "wait a minute." What just happened here? He's going to get intouch with my customer, and cut me out of the deal! When I came home I called my customer, and explained to him that I am "his" realtor, and that I am representing him in this transaction, and he is to not contact the seller/agent under any circumstances, as he is the selling realtor. He said, that he understood, and apologized.

I would like you input on the loyalty, and ethic conduct of this guy, and what do you think I did wrong here. How should I have handled this situation?

Thanks for your support!

To answer your first question the other agent was acting very unprofessionally.

I suspect your mistake was not getting your client to buy your service before you started showing him properties. If your buyer understood your role and the role of the listing agent/seller, and knew the value of the service you provide chances are your client would not have done what he did.

We train our agents that a buyer has to first buy your service. Our agents are supposed to meet with all potential buyers before showing them a single property so the buyer and agent can make a decision on whether they are a good fit for each other. At this meeting the agent will also educate the buyer on the buying process.

Some would call this qualifying your buyer, but I don't. Qualifying buyers is about the agent. This meeting is about finding out if you can help this person, making them feel comfortable, laying the groundwork for a relationship and then asking that person if they would like to use your services.

Good to have you here missbea!

Without knowing what type of building you were showing, and totally not defending this guy, because that behavior was totally inappropriate, but maybe the agent felt that he had more experience with this type of transaction?

Not sure if you had your buyer sign an EBA, or not. If you did, wonderful! If not, he can contact anyone he wants about purchasing a property.

Thank you both for your replies. I'm not ashamed to say that I am still learning this business! I learned RE "theory" in class, but the "mechanics" I am learning as I go along. Now, I know that I need to look into a buyer's agreement, and always meet my potenial customers FIRST --and not at the showing appointment. (My broker doesn't have an office, we work out of our homes, and that makes it a little awkard meeting clients.)

Thanks again for your help!

If your customer buys the property from the selling agent, you may still be able to argue "procuring cause." In Missouri, anyway, there are 3 "tests" to determine who earned the commission. Is it the same in all states?
1) Did you give him the Brokers disclosure form(explain who you were working for and ideally have him sign something to that effect)?
2) Did you take him across the threshold first, or show him the property first?
3) did you write the offer?
Buyer's agency is the best scenario, but not all buyers will sign a contract.
As far as ethics and loyalty of the customer, don't expect any. Most people don't know enough about real estate to know that actions like that are muddying the waters. The other agent should have shown the property, but not tried to monopolize your buyer. I try to be very outgoing around other agents, and be the one asking questions and pointing things out so they don't get the chance to "bond" with my buyers. Of course, I try to do it subtly so I don't appear rude, but I don't let them take the control away, or the focus off of the property. I had one agent actually start going on (to my buyer, after I informed her I was his agent)about how HER buyers are always so pleased they NEVER work with any other agent again... I was just about speechless when my buyer popped off " Yeah, I can see how you'd scare people away from Realtors." I had to buy him lunch after that!
Good luck, Missbea! It takes awhile to learn all you have to know, and about the time you think you have it, something changes. Don't get nervous- have that rapport established way before you meet with other agents, and try to anticipate questions the buyers will ask and ask them first, forcing the other agent to respond to YOU!

Thank you for your very insightful reply zephyr. As I stated, I am learning something new about this business everyday. I am detrmined to make it work! Here's an update--

I had another customer who was interested in this property.

The property is a storefront/apartment, mixed use building. The building is located in Cleveland Ohio, in a historical, Slavic,Polish neighborhood. A lot of the old buildings have signed up for the City's Storefront Program, and are being restored to there original appearance--Quite beautiful, very ethnic and interesting to see.

Anyway, I took my second customer to see this building. The owner, (who by the way, says he is the listing agent, but his name is not on the listing sheet) was there to greet me. When my buyer arrived. He said "hello" gruffly, and hurridley, no eye contact with me, and he immediately proceeded to talk to the owner about the building. I "tagged" along, and let this guy show and talk. After, the showing, and this guy was finished with his tour of the building, I asked the buyer, if he was interested. He made eye contact with the owner, and said that he was thinking about it.

Let me explain, the owner, and my buyer are from the same area, and ethnicticy. This area in the past, was known for its extreme exclusion of certain groups of people. However, times have changed, and many of these ethnic areas in Cleveland, and around, are, or have transitioned to multi-race and origin neighborhoods, happly and successfully. For example, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, etc. Although, sadly, right now in Garfield Heights, there are over 200 homes for sale, as families are rushing to move out, because the area is transitioning. I think it's sad when people don't want to live next door to someone, merly because of their heritage.

My customer, had contacted me through an ad I placed online. I had the service, and information that he was interested in, so he contacted me via email. I responded to his email and later called him. He was "guick" and borderline rude, when I asked him to meet with me first at the restaurant across from the building so that I could introduce myself, explain my services and have him sign the Agency Discl, etc. He wasn't interested in that, just wanted to go to the building. "Okay," I thought. "I'll take him to the building, and let the owner-guy show, and monopolize the appointment, because, this customer is clearly not going to come back to me for service," I thought. However, he is MY CUSTOMER for this showing. I have him registered at the LISTING OFFICE for MY CUSTOMER, and I have kept ALL CORRESPONDENCE FROM and TO HIM regarding this property. I informed my broker about this situation, and she advised, that we will sue this company for our commission, if my customer purchases this property.

When I contacted the owner-guy,after this appointment, and told him that I was aware of what was going on, and I hope that he wasn't planning on cutting me out of the deal. He said "oh, I'll give you a little something." I replied, "Look, I am a realtor, and this property is listed on the MLS. If I bring a READY, WILLING and ABLE buyer to the table,I am expecting my "FULL COMMISSION." He said, ok, I'm not strapped for cash." What an as.. ....!! I sent an email to the listing agent, (since you can't speak to anyone in this office) verifying my appointments, names, dates and times, and CC'd my broker.

Since then, this second customer has contacted me for more information on this building, I can tell he really doesn't want to deal with me, but he is. A deal is a deal. When this is over, I can say, that I'm getting a firsthand knowledge of the hard, and sad reality of Cleveland, real estate.

Thanks Again!
missbea
Happy Holidays-God Bless!!

I'll bet its not just a reality of Cleveland real estate.

Hard, sad fact of lfe. Period. Gonna get worse, too, as our gov't puts the "terrorism" focus on certain groups of people, I'm afraid.
Just be yourself and accepting of all ethnicities, and the right ones will find you and cintinue to do business with you because you treat them right!

I will, and thanks for the good advise.

Anyway, I took my second customer to see this building. The owner, (who by the way, says he is the listing agent, but his name is not on the listing sheet) was there to greet me. When my buyer arrived. He said "hello" gruffly, and hurridley, no eye contact with me, and he immediately proceeded to talk to the owner about the building. I "tagged" along, and let this guy show and talk. After, the showing, and this guy was finished with his tour of the building, I asked the buyer, if he was interested. He made eye contact with the owner, and said that he was thinking about it.

~~~~~

I definitely would have spoken to the "agent/owner" before I brought my second buyer there. I had a similar situation with a manager in a modular home park. The first buyer conveniently ended up buying a home from the manager. I made sure I spoke to the manager and the management company before I brought another customer back and made sure we were all clear that this was not going to happen again.

This has truly been a learning experience for me. I appreciate the input and advise from all of you.

I have learned through this, that in my area, it is common to have your customer "stolen" from you. What happens is,(can you believe this?) on the MLS listing sheet, in the "broker remarks" it will read: "Contact Listing Agent Only". So, you, following the directions, call the listing agent and set-up your showing appointment. My broker explained to me, that what happens here is, "your customer is "not registered" at the seller's broker's office, there is no paper trail, and if your buyer goes off with the selling agent, you really don't have a leg to stand on!
I am posting this here to help others. Always register your customer at the seller's agent office. Save your email correspondence with prospective buyer's as well. If the seller's office directs you back to the agent, insist on registering your customer, get names, and numbers-and remember to protect yourself, from these unscrupulous agencies!

Thanks again!!

missbea,
You need to begin using an EBA or Exclusive Buyers Agreement with all your buyer clients, That way when the selling agent starts in you just mention that you have an EBA with your client and they need to back off or you will file an Ethics complaint against them. Make sure you keep a detailed log sheet on each buyer with all relevant information information should you need to prove procuring cause.

Paul Oaks-- Good advise..will do!!! I have just modified a 3page EBA contract. If anyone needs a contract I'll send it---Thanks again!

I really don't like the idea of registering my clients w/another broker. Unless there's an offer, there's no reason what so ever that the other brokerage should have info pertaining to my clients. I've heard some say it's a security thing, where they're verifying that it's an actual agent setting up the showing. This can be easily solved, and there's several area brokers that do this, they ask for the agent's license number and verify.

I can understand that too. Most of the time when I register my client, I'm asked the clients last name only, I never give the, or am never asked for their full name. This information is registered in the showing book, for documentation for a number of reasons--to protect both sides.

There've been a few times when I was asked the full name of my clients. I'm guessing it was because I was showing kind of out of my area, Wadsworth agent showing in Cleveland, Garfield, Maple, and the like Heights areas. All though, we're all members of the same MLS, so I don't exactly get the "out of area" thing. I understand the paper trail thing, but if you, personally keep good records, there shouldn't be a problem. As a side thing, though, the one thing that really threw me, was almost no lock boxes up there. Owners were present for showings about 95% of the time.

Yes, I agree on the importance of keeping documentation in order, that's important in this business. You need to keep files in proper order as these documentations, and contracts are legal, and may be called upon at a later time.

KT, what get's me is, listings with camel lock boxes. I can't seem to find out where to purchase one. I was directed to CABOR's website, and I didn't see any there? Would you happen to know where I can get one?

I got mine from my mom, when I had the same thing happen! I don't now where you'd be able to get one other than maybe a locksmith? Or if you know of someone who's been around for 25+ years, most of the long-time agents seem to have one, or at least know how to get their hands on one.

Your're right! Every broker that I have had, had been around 25+ years or more in the business, and they all had one, including my current broker. She says that I can use hers, but it creates a hardship, since she lives on the other side of town, and I would have to return it ASAP. To avoid the headache, I check listings for type of lock, and avoid those with the camel lock. I would go the extra mile only if I new it would lead to an offer being made--not for my "sight-seers." --you know what I mean? (smiles)

Absolutely! I think it's strange that there's not really any continuity throughout the MLS areas for access to homes. I belong to both in the area, with access to Wayne/Holmes through CRIS, and just don't get it. I know some areas are more likely to use one method or the other, but I always thought that as a listing agent, the easier a house is to get access to by other agents, the quicker it would sell.

umhumm...that's what I thought, exactly. But, perhabs their is a "method to the madness" when you think about it...using locks with hard to find (obsolete) keys are a way of deterring a buyer's agent from getting a sale, and therefore, splitting the commission. I put file this right along with agents, who use a separate telephone number for MLS Listings, that they never answer, and return calls days later. These agents are realtors, and it appears that they are following the board, and NORMLs rules, but they are in fact treading in the "gray" area so that you can't say that they are breaking the rules.

Thats my opinion on the matter...what do you think? Have you been involved in similar incidents?---

Oh yeah. One in particular involving an e-box. I don't have an e-key, cuz I didn't trade it in when the Akron board switched to the new ones, and hubby doesn't want me to get another, in his words, not mine, RE is a racket, and I'd just be helping to make it worse.

Anyhow, this one home was in an area that usually doesn't use e-boxes, and me not having one, I called both the agent and the office asking if a key could be made available so I could show, and it really could have been "the one" for these buyers. I was told a firm no way, by both the office and agent, even after I volunteered to pick up and drop off the same day. But there was an open scheduled 2 weeks from when the buyers wanted to see it, and I could send them to that. Nice, huh? Good thing my buyers were understanding, and ended up purchasing a very similar model home, for about 6k less than that other one.

Good Going KT!

That burns me up, to no end when the seller's agent won't cooperate with entry. Here's one---I had a customer who was interested in getting in to see a home located about three doors down from me, on my street. I did the right thing, since I'm a realtor, and all--I contacted the listing agent, to set-up a showing. I asked her if she could be there to open the home, since it had a CAML LOCKBOX. She straightforwardly told me that, there was "no way" she was coming ALL THE WAY from (wherever far) to let me, and my buyer in to the home. I had informed her that my buyer was really ready to purchase, and this could possibly be a sale. She still declined. The nerve, I thought. So, I told her flatly, "Fine, I know Eric, we live on the same street (that's my neighbor who is selling his home) and I will go down to his house and ask him if he's going to be there to let us in since he hasn't moved. The listing agent was shocked, she changed her tune, and informed me that "oh yes", she replied, "I will call him, and check to see if that will be all right, ok?" "Thank you Ms. Hobson." Yeah, right, I thought! This agent was full of it. If the house was so far away, and an inconvenience for her to get to, then why did she list it? I walked down to Eric's and informed him that I had a buyer interested, and we made arrangements. I did the right thing, and followed up with this agent, though.

I have had it with these agents, and their "tatics" to clearly deter buyer's agents from making sales on their listings. I do not bite my tongue anymore with these crooks! I inform them that I am a realtor, and I have a right to show this property. I will take it further, if needed, and report the incident. I pay my board dues and MLS fees (and they are not cheap), and I am entitled to entrance to these listings.

What do you think about the "uneven" commission splits that a certain company does??? When I called the company and inquired about the uneven commission split, I was informed that, "we take 4% because we have to pay for the marketing for the seller." Okay, what about my expense in marketing for buyers???

Your thoughts on this one...

Hey, we're going to have to start a new thread!! (smiles)---

Commission splits don't bother me so much, as I'm REALLY trying to utilize an EBA. For me, I feel more comfortable showing any and all available homes that may interest my clients, and will still be compensated, whether it's a FSBO, or whatever.

But. What does burn me up, is when there's a problem with whatever, still gonna make it to close, but things come up, and someone wants $$ in return for their trouble, but that agency that's keeping a higher split, won't even make an effort to split the $$ w/the buyer's broker, even though the delay was partially their fault.

I put file this right along with agents, who use a separate telephone number for MLS Listings, that they never answer, and return calls days later.
~~~~~
Why would anyone do that? What would be their reason?

Why you ask??? Uhmmmmm.... Maybe the same reason an agent gave me a the "number" combo for an alpha lockbox. Then when she "finally" returned my call told me, oh...ha-ha, there's two lockboxs on the door. There weren't two lockboxes on the door and I felt she knew that. The list of these type of incidents can go on beyond the scope of this forum, believe me!

KT, you know what I do, with those listings from the certain company, I don't show em.

But listen, I don't really want to sound too negative here, and turn my fellow agents off. It is good to have a place to come to, where you can blow off steam, and people understand! Thanks!

Just anothre thought. It may simply be a cse of a very strong personality. You may just have to learn to deal with those strong personality types. Its one of the things I had to learn. I took a class from Flyod Wickman and he taught us how to control the situation with questions. Sometimes you have to just make the other one feel like they are in control. However in reality you are you just guilded them where you want them to go.